I am in a real quandary, I can not decide if I want to go with Martin Logan Vistas for my mains or with Definitive Technology BP7000's. The DefTechs are more complex with their built-in sub however the Martin Logans are electrostatic and require very exact placement and along with the DefTechs require an outlet to energize the panel. I was all set to buy the Martin Logans when I went in to buy them I gave them another listen and they sounded like crap. No crispness to them. I had an affinity for things that went bang when I was a kid so I have quite a bid of mid-frequency hearing loss, I prefer a crisp speaker. I'm not looking at the new Outlaw as a replacement main but I'm so damn curious that I may buy a pair and use them in conjunction with some older DefTech BP-2's I own for rear surrounds. Has anyone here had any DefTech 7000's or 7002's? I use 7006's for surround drivers. Sorry to drone on but this really has me flummoxed. Perhaps, as with RCA Victor I should let my dogs listen and decide?

It's been a long time since I heard any DefTech speakers (looked at them some before I bought my Paradigms back in 2001), and the only ML's I've heard were Aeon 1's at a friend's house. The Aeon 1's were nice - I'd probably have to rank them above the DefTech BP20's I demo'ed (typical DefTech bipole tower, but one of the older models without the side-firing powered woofer). Both speakers are going to be fairly placement-sensitive (the DefTech's because of the rear-firing drivers and the ML's because of the electrostatic panels) - I assume your space will allow the speakers to stand out a distance from the walls to give them room to "breath?" Either way, the best approach to speaker shopping will always be to let your ear be the judge. If you can swing an in-home demo (maybe a weekend loan or something similar), that'd be the ideal since it removes the variables of equipment, system setup, and acoustics at the store. If your only venue for listening is in the store, take a good stack of your own demo material, see if you can do some adjusting of speaker placement at the store to deal with poor setups (as may have been the case with the Vistas you heard recently), and try to spend some quality time listening - as you may have already done. Hopefully that will help you make the decision.

I would sure like to buy you a beer sometime Gonk. Darn shame you live two-thousand miles away. I have a ten-year old pair of DefTech BP-2's that I consider one of the best small boxes I have ever heard. I used them for mains for years, it's only in the last five years that I got the itch that I can not scratch, home theatre. I bought myself a Rolex about six years ago and when I think of the McIntosh 720 I could have had instead ... Oh well, I like the watch anyway. Thanks again Gonk

Doglover

I have a set of older DEF Tech. BP-8 and have enjoyed them as my mains for years, I also have the BP-2s for the surrounds. I have an odd shaped room so I sure I not getting the desired sound for the Def. Techs. I also have a Def Tech. center and a sub. The sub is the power field 15.

Lately I've been thinking about selling my speaker system, due to new construction of a house and the speakers will be in storage until I finish my HT room.

Doglover,
I have a pair of the BP7002 running off a 1070. I listened to many many speakers before I decided on the Def Techs. I'm not sure what kind of amp/receiver you're running, but the 1070 does the job very nicely. Even though the 1070 is rated for 65 WPC the BP7002's have internal subs, as you noted. The amps are only driving the mid and the high range, leaving the power hungry woofers running alone.

The speakers are very bright sounding, which I like. They also have the ability to be driven very loudly without giving up. This was very important for me. They are not one of the best speakers I've heard by far. However, they are a very great value and really rock.

I can only speak to my experience with older Martin Logans. So you can take the following comments as you see fit...

I used to own the Sequel and we sold lots of those along with the Monolith and CLS at the store.

The Vista looks a like like a modern interpretation of the Sequel, which was also a hybrid. As gonk said, they can be pretty placement sensitive. I recall the smaller the stat' panel, the smaller the sweet spot was. In addtion, compared to conventional box speakers I have owned, they just are not as dynamic. Apart from the woofer enclosure, you just can't move as much air around with that sheet of mylar as you can with conventional drivers. If they're going into a system where you'll listen to movies at high levels, that may be a consideration. Bottom line is, don't push 'em too hard. Again, that is based on older ML's -- perhaps things have improved in that area.

Lastly, MLs were quite sensitive to electronics. For example, CLS's were a favorite choice to have in the evaluation rooms of high-end electronics manufacturers as they were stunningly revealing. In your recent listening session where you said they sounded like crap, perhaps it was because of poorly matched equipment???

When I purchased my one and only tube preamp, it was based on having the Sequels. At the time, I powered them with an Aragon 4004. Both electronics were on the warm side to counter-balance the Sequels' tendency to sound thin and bright. Today, that combo on my current speakers would be way too caramel sweet sounding.

Their strenghts? Very open and transparent when you've got them dialed in. And like most electrostatics, transient response is excellent -- they're really, really fast. The cool looks factor is also a bonus when showing the speakers to neighbors, friends, hot chicks, etc.

One final thing, if you do settle on them, be sure to plug them into a good power conditioner with adequate surge protection. And keep kiddies with sharp objects away from the panels.

Not familar with the DefTechs, so I'll shut my mouth on that one.

Be sure to let us know what you end up with!

Odd. I have recently upgraded from ML aeon i's to Vantages and have thought both models as crisp, light, and fast. For a comparison when I originally auditioned the Aeon i's, my other choice, Polk L25's or whatever sounded absolutely muddy compared to the ML's.
The ML's specialty is mid-range clarity but yes, they can be very tempermental in setting up although I feel they are worth the extra time and effort. One thing that is also characteristic of the ML's is that they can take on any improvement or upgrades in head equipment, making perfection even better.

I am with you on the ML's. I have the Aeon's and love them. I just recently upgraded my NAD surround sound receiver to an Outlaw 990 and a 7125. I have a Carver M1.0T for the Aeon's and an Adcom GFA555 for my two subs. It rocks. Love it!

I auditioned the BP7000's as well, and thought they were ok, but didn't have the accuracy and stage presence that you see with the ML's in the vocals.

I have the martin logan aeon's & the descent sub and this combo is spooky. I love it.

Next to the ML's my next favorite was the paradigm studio 100's. I thought they were a terrific speaker.

Since this is an outlaw forum though - I can't comment on the bookshelf speaker. I haven't heard it.

I can comment on the lfm-1 though.

I love it. But it's not quite as musical as the ML descent, but at 1/3rd the price - it's perfect for my home theatre room.