Hello all.

My 7500 showed up last week, and I'd like to report that it is truly an amazing amp. (Preaching to the choir, I know.) I'm pushing Polk lsi 15's (4 ohm), which are really hard to drive. I upgraded from a Rotel RB-985, which was great, but not quite up to the task. Now, I have more punch and headroom, not to mention clarity and subtlety. And the bass! Wow.

Anyway, I'm having some hum problems, and I'm close to tracking them all down. I ordered a Jensen VRD-1FF Cable ground isolator. I think the cable is 80% of the problem. Unplugging the cable stops MOST of the noise, but there's still a little more to track down.

Here's my question... I had a friend recommend installing an isolated circuit in the room. Has anyone tried doing that? It seems to me that if I can isolate the ground problems from the cable, everything else in that room will then be on the same single ground. Make sense? Or wasted effort?

The 7500 is very sensitive to standing DC on your AC line.
Does the hum come and go with a definite pattern?
I had problems with mine doing this and I finaly purchased a Channel Islands XDC2 AC filter and all of the problems went away immediately.

Hey Monty. Congratulations. And, keep preaching to the choir. Welcome to the club.

I had a short-lived hum issues as well. The hum disappeared after I ran all my components and incoming cable through my Monster PowerCenter.

Hi there, Monty -

I'm a happy new 7500 owner, too. Just like you, I'm driving Polk LSi15s in front, LSif/x in the rear, and a DSW pro 400 sub. Yesterday was the first time I have actually pushed the system to any degree what so ever, and what I heard brought a smile to my face that still hasn't gone away. So far, it's everything I hoped it would be, and I know I still have some tweaking to do.

Good luck to you.

What a friendly bunch here...

Candyman, what model Monster PowerCenter do you have, or what would you recommend?

Chessie, killer system. It's amazing how some good power will really make those Polks sing.

butchgo, I've run across your posts about your XDC2 from various searches. How in the world would I test to see if there's standing DC on the line? I'm assuming that all of my hum is coming from ground loops, which I'm slowly isolating. Can you check for DC on the line with just a multimeter?

Thanks everyone for all the replies.

I would get one of these. They are a GREAT deal right now...

http://store.audioholics.com/product/717/66232/apc-av-h15-1-5kva-h-type-power-conditioner---silver

Awesome, thanks praedet.

Just ordered one.

Take a look at Audioholics special on the APC H-15 for $149. Great little machine and a real good value right now.

Monty, I purchased up a Monster HTS 3500, primarily for surge protection, on close-out a couple years back. I can't say that it did anything to improve the sound, outside the hum isolation. It worth about the $149 or so I paid for it.

The APC H-15 unit that praedet and XenonMan mention looks like a bit of a step up from the Monster HTS 3500. I'd likely order it if I was in the market again.

Rob

I am too a happy new owner of an Outlaw amp. The 7700 arrived two weeks ago and its been a nice improvement to my system. I am still using my Rotel RSX-972 receiver as the pre/pro until the 997 comes out. The 7700 drives my Scan-Speak Ultimate Revelation Kit speakers for the fronts and Totem Mite-T s for the center and the rears (sides are coming). For power, I installed a dedicated line from my breaker to a Belkin PF60 in which I attach all my AV equip except for my LCD display. I receive very little hum speakers and no hum from the amp itself. Only when there is no sound playing I can here alittle bit of hum from the speakers. It is very faint and you have to put your ear to the speakers to notice it but it is there and where the Rotel had non before. However, the 7700 brings fuller sound at higher volumes and fills my HT with a sound that puts a smile on my face.

Meant to add -

I was quite concerned with issue of noise, hum, and whether or not I could even run all of this equipment on my single 15A circuit. I live in an apartment building which has had a number of issues in the past with keeping the power flowing cleanly.

Anyway, I'm happy to report that I have absolutely zero hum or noise from my system. Actually, I'm quite relieved that this is the case, as I was quite worried about what I would experience once I plugged everything in.

I'm running the amp, pre/pro and sub through a surge protector/noise filter box I found lying around my parent's basement. I'm sure it's not a high dollar item, and it's probably really old. I don't know if it's doing anything for me or not, but I'm not gonna change anything just yet.

Still working on getting the system dialed in. I think it's kind of like getting the TV calibrated. At first I had everything running pretty hot, and the vivid picture looks pretty amazing. But once you start getting to more realistic colors and contrast levels, the viewing experience is that much better. I'm kind of going through that now with adjusting speaker levels, sub level, etc. Every day I like this system more and more....

I really wonder if the 7500 has a break-in period. It seemed a bit more harsh at first. I guess it could be that I'm just getting used to the sound--hard to say for sure. But it really seems more smooth and refined now that I've been playing the amp for a week or two.

Yet another new 7500 owner. I've also got a low hiss or hum issue, but it doesn't do it with just the amp turned on, so I posted about it in the 970 thread.

Gotta say, this amp does make some beautiful music!

Congrats to all the new owners. I also had a hum problem with the 7500 and it turn out to be the cable tv. Running the cable thru the surge protector did the job. Good luck
Ramon

I'd like to post what I discovered last night. First off, like most people, my cable was 80% of the problem.

I still had a little hum left. I have a junk Sony "ES" receiver, used as a pre-amp. Incidentally, will the 997 EVER be released!?! On the back, it has a little grounding screw. I connected a wire to it, and connected it to my ground, and immediately, no hum at all. Dead silence.

The Sony pre-amp has just a two pronged plug, so I wonder if that's the problem. Granted, I'm no electrician. All I know is what I've learned from Google for the past few weeks.

Good info, Monty - glad you were able to solve your hum issue. My system was dead silent until I added some analog cables between my BD player and the 990. Picked up a hum when listening via the 7.1 direct input mode. At the suggestion of another member here, I moved the analog interconnects away from the AC cords I had running in the back, and everything was quiet again.

Still discovering now how good 2-channel audio can sound with this system. Very happy so far. Look forward to many more hours of happy listening.

cheers!

Just to update, since I originally posted the link

You can now get the same APC power conditioner for 99.95 w/ no shipping from Amazon/tiger direct...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000AHVGA6/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A9B09ZK9BZJQ6&v=glance

$99??!??! Curse you praedet!!!

(Mine arrived yesterday, and I LOVE it.)

Sorry, I just saw it about 5 minutes before I posted

I bought one at $150 too about 2 weeks ago.

My only problem is I prefer it in black, so I might take it apart and try painting it...

Oh yeah, glad you like it

Just out of curiosity, do you know what brand and type of interconnects those were? Years ago my audio system was always plagued with hums, but that was in the days when I used radio shack audio cables. I replaced all of those with better ones and I havn't had a hum problem since.

Thanks for that link...I just placed my order for two of them at that price...with free shipping no less.

APC must have really misjudged their production for the silver ones since those are at that really low price while the black ones are hundreds more. Everything I have read about them is really positive and they seem to be a real quality product . I'm replacing 15 year old Adcom ACE 515 ac line enhancers which don't have anywhere near the ability that the APC units have.

With what we pay for our audio components, this is cheap insurance. Plus...they look pretty spiffy and I can always use more blue led's and LCD readouts in my systems.

I just hooked up my 7500 in place of the 7125 so the 7125 can go home for some Outlaw TLC on the SL channel. My question is on the 7500s trigger delay. When the 990 comes on with the 7125 there is about a 3-5 second delay before the amp turns on. The same startup with the 7500 has about a 15 second delay. I am using the same trigger cord for both situations. Is this normal because the 7500 has two transformers vice one in the 7125 or should I swap to the trigger cord which came with the 7500?

I don't use the trigger directly to my amp, so I can't say for certain, but the trigger cable shouldn't matter.

strindl,
I know a lot of people love Blue Jeans Cable http://www.bluejeanscable.com/ and Signal Cable http://signalcable.com/ around here. I own both. Signal makes reference-quality cabling at mere-mortal prices. Blue Jeans Cable makes audiophile-grade cabling at or below what you'll pay for shiny, mediocre Monster cable.

Signal is really small-time, and kinda slow. They don't have a fancy shopping cart site or anything, but they make terrific cables. Blue Jeans take a practical approach to cabling. Mine arrived a little grubby (on the outside), and in a plain plastic bag, but perform wonderfully.

I don't have any of Signal's stuff, but I've had consistently excellent results with Blue Jeans.

I've used the cables from the cheapo radio shack stuff to ultra pricey. I think the sweet spot is somewhere in between. I once paid 350 bucks for a 3 foot length of Kimber Cable kcag coaxial digital interconnect and about the same for their KCAG balanced XLR interconnects. I would never spend that much on cables again...although those work well.

I have found the Belkin cables that you can buy at Sams Club to be of very high quality and not expensive at all. The Acoustic Reseach cables that used to be sold at Best Buy are also very good and cheap.

To help hook up my new digital gear, I bought a pair of 50 foot HDMI cables for 30 bucks a piece from a place on amazon as well as several 35 foot toslink digital audio cables for $11.52 each. I was a bit concerned at first that a 50 foot hdmi cable that cheap wouldn't work well. I didn't need to be concerned. The upconverted 1080P picture and digital sound transmitted through those cables couldn't be any better.

10 years ago, I paid over 250 bucks for a custom made 20 foot toslink cable. That works no better than the $11.52 cent 35 footers that I bought on amazon. They both sound great.

Scott

I have to really thank you for that heads up. I bought three of those from that link at 99 bucks a shot. Even though I bought from Tiger direct, the price they had on their own websight for it was double...199. Through amazon, Tiger direct was selling for that 99 dollar price.

I originally ordered two, but when they shipped so fast and I loved them when they arrived, I ordered one more before that price jumped up. I got that third one yesterday. Tiger Direct ships from Chicago and I'm near Milwaukee. Even with standard shipping I get it the next day.

As of today, their price on amazon is 199 again. I got a great deal thanks to your post here that I would not have known about otherwise.

The APc 15 is a really nice piece of gear too.

BTW..here is one sitting on top of my 990:

Looks great!

Since I got one for $150, and liked it a lot, I too ordered a second one at the $99 price.

I also have a Panamax M5300-EX

I need to find out how to paint the two APCs so that they match the rest of my black gear...

Looks like the big specials on that APC are history. Audioholics is now at $299 for it.

Does anyone have their 7500 startup sequence go like this:
990 starts and sends signal to 7500.
7500 starts and outputs sound to speakers in about 3 seconds.
Blue power on light on 7500 comes on 30 seconds after start from 990.

Great sound but a little odd at startup. Should I be concerned?

I figured I'd chime in on this thread too. Just got my 7500 late yesterday. All I can say is 'wow'. I've moved up the Outlaw 'ladder' of amps; starting with the 7075, then the 7125, and now the 7500. Each time I've upgraded I've noticed a definite improvement in detail. I'd sold my 7125 about 6 months ago and bought a low end HDMI receiver so I could hook up all my disc players with one cable. While it was nice for movies, the audio sq left a lot to be desired. My original plan was to wait til the 997 came out and buy it in combo with another 7125 or maybe a 7500. When the Outlaws announced their latest B-stock sale I decided I couldn't stand listening to audio on the receiver any longer and jumped on a 7500 and sold the receiver. I'm happy I decided on it vs. the 7125. My wife and I listened to one of her favorite CD's last night and we both remarked about details in the music we'd never heard before. At present I'm running the Oppo direct to the 7500 and will decide on a preamp down the road (though my kids are already missing their surround sound for movies). BTW..I've not noticed any hum or hiss.

I am just getting into Home Theater and have a number of questions. I have found this forum to be a great learning tool ... so thx gang.

Re: Og33's comment about running the OPPO directly into the 7500 and the lack of surround sound, I realize that without the pre/pro, the finer points of bass management, room / speaker correction, device switching, etc. would not be available, but wouldn't the 5.1 analog outputs from the OPPO disc player provide basic surround sound when connected directly to the amplifier?

My current plan is to enter the HT arena with a new OPPO BDP-83 (assuming near term availability), an Outlaw 7700, and eventually the Outlaw 997 (expecting longer time to delivery) ... what can I expect from a direct OPPO BDP-83 connection to the Outlaw 7700 amp for the short term (while waiting for the 997)?

The 980H that Og33 is using and the BDP-83 both offer a few things that are essential to connecting directly to an amp: volume control (something that many DVD players lack but is critical to allowing this arrangement to work), bass management (fixed 80Hz crossover, so it's not exactly sophisticated, but it's there), channel trim, speaker delays (albeit less sophisticated than a surround receiver or processor would normally offer), and Pro Logic II processing (enabled in a setup menu, not as easily controlled as with a surround receiver or processor). As Og33 notes, it means your home theater has exactly one surround sound source available (no way to use a cable or satellite receiver, media player, or game console with your amp and speakers).

Gonk is right on as usual. I've done this before with the Oppo and a 7125. It's a 'cheap' way to get by until selecting a pre/pro, but you're limited to using the Oppo, period. At this point, I'm using the Oppo for 2 channel CD playback only. In the coming week I may play around with connecting my surrounds and sub. I've gotten used to watching regular DVD's on my Toshiba HD player as I think it does a better job upconverting than the Oppo.

Gonk / og33,

Thanks for the responses.

Given the capabilities of the OPPO BDP-83, I think my approach will be to purchase the BDP-83 (when available) and direct connect it to the Amp for surround sound for all discs and then run my cable box (SA 8300HD - same as gonk) into a second HDMI connection on my Sony 50XBR LCD RPTV, and use the TV sound system (not great, but OK) until the Outlaw 997 becomes available.

A second question on amplification: I currently have NHT VT2's (towers with side firing 10" "sub-woofers") powered by a Classe CA-150 Amp, which I use for 2 channel audio only. I have been pleased with the NHT VT2's and plan to use them in the home theater set-up (I therefore purchased an NHT Classic 2C Centre, and four NHT Classic 2 speakers as side and rear surrounds at a good price before NHT goes Tango Uniform). My intent is to purchase an Outlaw 7700 to drive the top half of the VT2's, the Centre and the Surrounds, and use the Classe to biamp the "subwoofers" on the lower half of the VT2's (will probably need an outboard active crossover - more reading to do on this topic). A less expensive alternative might be to buy the 7500 and use the Classe for the rear surrounds.

My question is will I see a significant advantage with the VT2's biamped or is the 7500 scenario (noted above) a better solution (as background my listening room is 11.5 FT x 26.0 FT with screen and LCR to be set up on the short wall facing the 26.0 FT length of the room)? Look forward to your comments .... Thx.

WW,
You could certainly try biamping, but in my experience, I've never noticed what I would call a significant improvement in sq by doing so. I'm sure there are others here that will have the opposite opinion. I guess you won't know til you try and see what you experience. If you don't you may always wonder what you've been missing and want to upgrade!

The 'biamping" arrangements on speakers I've looked at appear to only split the passive crossover into two sections that can then be powered by separate amps. This probably helps some by isolating interactions between the low-pass and high-pass sections, but real gains in performance come from eliminating the passive crossover altogether and using an active crossover with multiple amps. So far as I can tell, that would require getting inside the speaker cabinet and disconnecting the passive crossover, or at least the section that is going to be replaced by an active crossover (in case of more than two-way), and wiring the back panel jacks straight to the drivers. Otherwise, using an active crossover will put the active in series with the passive crossover in the speaker cabinet which gains nothing. With passive crossovers, the lower the frequency of the crossover, the bigger the inductors, and big inductors create all sorts of sound quality issues. It's a credit to passive crossover designers that they get them to work satisfactorily at all.

I am biamping my B&W HTM center channel speaker now with a single stereo Threshold s200 Stasis amp, but as you noted, that still uses the passive crossover built into the speaker. There is an external set of jumpers on the 5 way binding posts on the back of the B&W's that can be removed to break the internal connection between the woofer and tweeter.

I have gone the complete biamp route with a pair of Magnepan MG3a's a number of years back. The crossover for those is in an external box rather than being inside the speaker, so it can be entirely removed from the audio path if desired.

I used a NIKKO brand external electronic crossover in that application. It was hooked up between the preamp output and the power amp inputs. I used a pair of Threshold s200 Stasis amps with excellent results that improved on the sound delivered using the magnepan passive crossovers.

I still have that Nikko crossover sitting in it's box in my storage room. I don't have a use for it at the momenyt but it is far too nice of a piece to get rid of, and new high end electronic crossovers are rare and rather costly.

Similar to the B&Ws, as mentioned by Strindl, the NHT VT-2's have a strap connecting two separate sets of binding posts; one for the subwoofer (side facing lower) and one for the upper range (dual woofer/ tweeter). My intention is to use NHT's outboard active crossover unit (X2) and use my Classe amp for the subs and the Outlaw for the Uppers.

Strindl ... you indicated that you were pleased with the results of biamping (on the Magnepans), but could you elaborate on the sound differences / improvements that you noticed. ... Thx.

.

The advantage to getting the passive crossover out of the signal path and replacing it with an electronic crossover BEFORE the power amp input, is that each amplifier is only fed the frequencies that it will actually use for that speaker application. An amplifier channel that will be hooked only to the bass section will only get that bass signal as an input. The reverse is true for thw mid and tweeter sections.

In the sort of quasi bi amping I am doing with my B&W center channel speaker, I don't get that benefit since the crossover happens after the power amp. There is still a benefit doing it, but it's not as great.

What I noticed and enjoyed in the true bi amping I did with my magnepans was a noticable improvement in the music that the maggies produced. It just seemed more "live".

I'm not enough of a tech to be able to explain all of the reasons why this was true, all I know is that it was.

I have the same issue as XenonMan. The 7500 drives the speakers about 3 seconds after the 990 turns it on. The blue LED comes on about 30 seconds later. My amp is being replaced as we speak. Has anyone else seen this problem and what was the resolution

--------------------
Model 990/7500
Magnepan MMG, MMG-C,MMG-W
Velodyne 12" sub
Panasonic 60" Plasma

I actually received a part to replace myself from Scott at Outlaw. The amp does the exact same thing as before. Scott told me there is no danger to the amp but it does act a little strange when it starts up. Why are they replacing your amp, did they say?

Hmmm...I bought another 970 during the sale and have it hooked up via trigger to the 7500. The amp does the same thing as John F and XenonMan report...about a 3 second delay before sound starts and about 30 seconds til the blue light switches on. I noticed before when I had my Oppo hooked up direct it basically did the same thing...though I had to manually turn on the amp. I thought this was normal with the 7500...maybe not??? I don't remember this issue with the 7125 or 7075. I also noticed noise from the amp when connected direct when a cd was ending or beginning tracks...like a little pfff. Don't notice that now with the 970, but I do have some hiss that I didn't have with the Oppo hooked up direct.

When I spoke to Scott, he said the startup sequence is the same as for a 7125. I have both and they definitely don't power on the same way. I have finally replaced the part Scott sent me, but the amp powers on the same way as before. It is almost like the caps need a little time to charge or a warmup period. The amp is in its box right now waiting for me to swap it with the 7125. I ran with it for about a month while the 7125 went back to the shop for a dead channel fix. I powered it on about 100 times and it acted the same way almost every time. No issues with the amp itself once it was on.

When I called in about the start-up issue they said they had never seen it before. As a matter of fact, because my 990 failed after about 10 mins they thought I may have a (AC) supply problem... I think not! Anyway, the new amp arrives on Thursday I'll report in shortly after.

The new amp arrived on Thursday and behaves in exactly the same way. I fully understand why a turn on delay is needed, but what worries me is that I can hear a relay click when the speakers turn on which is reasonable but then another relay click when the blue LED turns on. Why would you need a relay for that? This is clearly a design problem, but without looking at the schematics I can't tell what's going on and neither can Outlaw. I hope nothing has been overlooked that will come back and bite me if I keep the amp.

John F,
Mine's acted the same way since I got it in March. I've not noticed a performance problem but I have something going on in my system...might be the Oppo or the 970, but I got some real distortion this morning while playing a cd via analog through my Oppo.

You have a 5 year warranty on the amp too, so if there's an issue with the amp it should become apparent during the warranty period.

Now I have another issue. The 7500 buzzes in cycles. It sounds like mains hum but it is the amp itself buzzing, the sound does not come through the speakers. Has anyone else come across this?

Yup.
It is standing DC on the AC line.
I had the same problem and finally took care of it with one of these .
I believe Outlaw also has a DC filter available.
You might want to check with them on Tuesday.

That product is only rated at 7.5amps. The 7500 is capable of pulling twice that. Food for thought.