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#78226 - 08/05/08 02:01 AM Re: Switching from Yamaha receiver to Outlaw Power Amp, a justified move?
gonk Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I was hoping that the software was employing some sort of crossovers, since the Yamaha's 80Hz crossover is only for digital or analog stereo inputs. I generally recommend either disabling the sub's crossover or setting it as high as possible.
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#78227 - 08/05/08 03:16 PM Re: Switching from Yamaha receiver to Outlaw Power Amp, a justified move?
pepe12 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 9
Loc: illinois
The cross over on the yamaha would only be considered for stereo signal?..interesting!
The software from Auzentech Prelude soundcard does indeed sets the cross over, at the frequency you choose.
Why would you set the sub's crossover as high as possible (you mean at higher frequencies right?)

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#78228 - 08/05/08 04:27 PM Re: Switching from Yamaha receiver to Outlaw Power Amp, a justified move?
gonk Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
The receiver's stereo analog inputs (not a stereo signal to the multichannel input) are converted to digital and then become functionally identical to a PCM stereo signal coming via a coaxial or optical digital cable.

I would either disable the sub's crossover or set it to its highest setting because you already have a bass management system in place that is redirecting bass from other channels into the sub and merging them with the LFE channel. You don't need to sub's crossover, and if it is set anywhere near the crossovers in the HTPC or receiver then you will start to stack crossovers (thus losing some low frequency data in the vicinity of the crossovers, since none of the crossovers are "brick walls" and all have a slope associated with them that creates some influence both above and below the set crossover point).
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#78229 - 08/05/08 06:14 PM Re: Switching from Yamaha receiver to Outlaw Power Amp, a justified move?
pepe12 Offline
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Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 9
Loc: illinois
I see. sounds like a must do, I'll leave the job to the sound card then.
Your note regarding the digital conversion puzzles me. I bought this sound card for its analog outputs. I observed a real improvement in quality over using the digital optical output.
But will I go through a digital conversion if i set up the system as: sound card->7.1 analog outputs->A/V 7.1 multi ch input -> pre outs -> Outlaw 7125 and sub?
Again, I'm still questioning the "neutrality" of the A/V receiver in between source and power amp.

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#78230 - 08/05/08 09:51 PM Re: Switching from Yamaha receiver to Outlaw Power Amp, a justified move?
gonk Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
My note regarding the digital conversion relates to the Yamaha - and the way that any surround receiver or processor deals with analog stereo inputs. Because many of the features that we associate with a surround receiver (surround processing modes, bass management, individual speaker levels and delays, etc) are handled by the DSP with digital audio signals, those analog inputs need to be converted to digital. On the other hand, the multichannel analog input on a receiver (be it 5.1 or 7.1) is there largely because of the existence of lossless audio formats - and we don't want those audio streams getting overly jostled from D to A to D to A. As a result, using the receiver's 7.1 analog input skips all of that - the signal goes to the volume control and then to the internal amps (or the pre-amp outputs). It isn't necessarily completely neutral, as it will depend on how well designed and clean the analog signal path is within the receiver, but you are at least remaining in the analog domain throughout.
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#78231 - 08/06/08 07:29 PM Re: Switching from Yamaha receiver to Outlaw Power Amp, a justified move?
candyman Offline
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Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 76
Loc: Beaverton
Quote:
Originally posted by pepe12:

May I ask again how would you describe the improvement from a receiver amplification to a dedicated amplification, in qualitative terms that is, since putting the volume at its max to wake up the neighbours is not what I'm after here.
thanks
Pepe, I missed an amplification step on my response to you. My actual amplification progression was:
Yamaha 2092 -> Classe CAV-75 -> Outlaw 7125 -> Outlaw 7500

I too don't (usually) listen at high volumes. The difference between the Yammie and the standalone amplifiers was quite noticeable even at comfortable listening levels. The sound was more resolved and less "forced" with the amplifiers vs receiver. I hope that helps.

Rob
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Yamaha CX-A5000 pre-pro
Outlaw 7500
Oppo BDP-83
Samsung 65" LED TV
Front: Martin Logan reQuests & Logos
Surround: Martin Logan Fresco i via Outlaw OAWA3
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#78232 - 09/10/08 07:51 PM Re: Switching from Yamaha receiver to Outlaw Power Amp, a justified move?
pepe12 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 9
Loc: illinois
Hi guys,
It's been a while, vacation, business trips, etc...but the thought of upgrading my system made its way and I finally placed an order for a 7125.

That's it, my first step into the dedicated amp world.
I'll let you know what non expert ears think about the difference with integrated amp.

I will leave the Yam in between the sound card and the Outlaw though, since it comes handy with the few components connections to manage.

I wished to thank you very much for your expertise and prompt answers everytime.
See you soon with listening impressions..

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#78233 - 09/10/08 07:58 PM Re: Switching from Yamaha receiver to Outlaw Power Amp, a justified move?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I look forward to hearing how it works out for you.
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#78234 - 09/12/08 03:12 AM Re: Switching from Yamaha receiver to Outlaw Power Amp, a justified move?
FAUguy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 249
Loc: FL
Quote:
Originally posted by pepe12:
Hi guys,
It's been a while, vacation, business trips, etc...but the thought of upgrading my system made its way and I finally placed an order for a 7125.

That's it, my first step into the dedicated amp world.
I'll let you know what non expert ears think about the difference with integrated amp.

I will leave the Yam in between the sound card and the Outlaw though, since it comes handy with the few components connections to manage.

I wished to thank you very much for your expertise and prompt answers everytime.
See you soon with listening impressions..
I started out years ago with a Kenwood receiver. After a few months it started to have problems and I repalced it with an Adcom Pre-Amp and 2ch Amp. I could hear an improvement going from a receiver to seperates. I had this set-up for about 8 years, then got an Outlaw 950 processor and an Adcom 5ch amp. I could hear an improvment again. Two years ago I repalced this with an Outlaw 990 and 7125 amp. Sound got even better. Then this summer I replaced the amp with the 7500 in preperation of buying new speakers. The 7500 had a "fuller" sound to it, over the 7125. Bass was more defined and not as "muddy" on the low notes. Then a month later I got my new B&W 804S/HTM3S speakers and heard a major upgrade in sound quality.

Unless a person has A LOT of money to buy the best up front, most of us take "baby steps" over the years....replacing a piece at a time. I'm sure what I have now will last a long time, but then I might get a better CD player, DAC, or the repalcement to the 990 next year.

I'm sure you'll be happy with your 7125 as I was.
I have mine for sale on Audiogon, since it was replaced with the 7500.

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#78235 - 01/13/09 12:08 AM Re: Switching from Yamaha receiver to Outlaw Power Amp, a justified move?
pepe12 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 9
Loc: illinois
Pff..11th of September..Goodness, time flies. whereas my 7125 has landed :-) Good for me. It's plugged in behind the Yam which acts as pre amp now. And the Yam is used for its analog passthrough and management of volume and component source. My source is a HTPC with an auzentech XFi Prelude 7.1 soundcard. I use the analog output exclusively
So so...well, it sounds better. How much better would anybody in my situation ask?.. I must say I was massively impressed by the switch from digital output to analog outputs on my soundcard. Gigantic leap. then by switching to a dedicated amp enabled me to hear what i was only presuming. It's unleashed, when it needs to bang, it does, it doesn't stop halfway. One of the first movie I threw at it was master commander in DTS (reminder, DTS decoded by sound card, thrown at 7.1 analog, through Yam, and output by 7125). This alones makes you congratulate yourself for the purchase. It gives the whole installation more breath, and much more "relief" (in french, sorry), err..distinction between what should be wispered and what should be blasted?. The range seems wider. And somehow I have the feeling there is a clear cut, no sound "blur" or overlap, dunno.
As for the power, since many people hesitate with the 7200, I'd say it's plenty enough to power a 7.1 in a basement about 20 ft *20 ft, and with a lot in reserve. However, I have modest speakers I think (see my first post)so people with more ambition might find a use for all that power (I leave that debate to the experts though :-)
Overall a great purchase, but above all a very impressive value for money.
A big thank to all the guys here for their advice which proved very accurate.

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