I am looking into purchasing one of these, and I wanted to findout what some of the better value combo units are out there? I have noticed more vendors are offering universal players, but most are priced in the $700 to $1000. The Pioneer DV-45A has come down in price and I haven't really seen much else in the $350 to $500 range.
Thanks

I'd avoid the Pioneer models unless you already have a DVD player. All the current Pioneer models have the CUE problem, not to mention that they tend to finish nearly dead-last in the annual DVD ShootOut.

I own the Panasonic DVD-RP82. It doesn't do SACD, but it does do DVD-A. It has the Faroudja de-interlacer and received the top rating in the aforementioned shoot-out.

Otherwise, off the top of my head, I can't think of a good combo player. From what I've heard, you're often better getting two cheap players -- one for DVD-A and one for SACD -- than you are in getting one expensive one.

Jeff

I have to disagree concerning the Pioneer 45A combo player. I have had nothing but great sound and picture from it with none of the "cueing" problem the other person refer's to (which has never come up in my research on this product). I would highly recommend this product as a dual player. Check out the feedback on Audiogon. All the major publications also highly recommend this player. I would audition this player and make your on decision (bring along the new SACD of Dark side of the moon), good luck.

Im with ssand...it is a magnificent player all around. and for the price?? Are you kidding me? Its a bargain!

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Play it LoUd!!

Source: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/s...&deInt=0&mpeg=0

Now, these comments are based off of the list price of $700, which has dropped sharply. Maybe it's a better bargain now, but it doesn't sound like it. Any player that introduces poor performance into your system is no bargain, in my opinion.

Compare that to the Panasonic DVD-RP82 which I own, that had a list price of $229.95:



Source: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/s...&deInt=0&mpeg=0

Jeff

Poor performance is subjective when you’re factoring tradeoffs. (dual Vs single HighR audio formats and video Vs audio preformance) The shootouts all involve video performance of the players (some might argue their main function)

And if that is your sole concern, you should separate your video performance from you audio player/s completely and get a Bravo DI player if you have a DVI LCD/plasma/DLP enabled display or FP. Then you can achieve what some reviewers have called “reference” quality video, for 200.00. This particular unit recommended only if you have a DVI connection as it eliminates all D/A video conversion if you do.

But when your factoring performance across the board, Last I was keeping track the Pioneer would beat the Panny in sound. (particularly in straight CD play) And I would not trade my RP91 for either one of them.

From reviews I’ve seen (and I have not kept track lately) If your looking for the pricebreaks of discontinued or end of cycle models. Choose the Pioneer if your emphasis is on audio and want a dual format player (SACD and DVD-A).Choose something like the 82 if your emphasis is on video. And only want to get a start in the HR formats (DVD-A).
And me I always have to be different when all three were currently available units. I chose the RP91 (DVD-A only) for a combo of factors, scaling for a 16.9 screen being my priority at the time.
Happy enough with its audio/ aging video performance not to be attracted (yet) to shopping later generation advancements.

I’m really not keeping track with the reviews on the current crop of dual HR formats models. I’m perfectly content to give them a little more time for further V and advancements and price drops occur.
What will drive you crazy during these purchases are the tradeoffs.
If my priority was the BEST A & V. I’d break up my purchases into single units. Possibly try the Bravo then shop for audio players separately.

When you factor convenience of the all in ones. There have been enough consumers of the Pioneer 45 (mutltifuntion) who have been extremely satisfied with its performance (including video)(some posts in this thread remark on their satisfaction).
I would think it should be a contender on your shopping list, -if what you really want is a universal player, And are trying not to break the bank with a latest model dual format purchase.

I too have been very happy with the Panasonic RP91. I believe it has slightly better video resolution than the RP82, but is essentially the same... both have a CD upsample feature that I think provides great value.

SLL... do you use the upsample (Remaster) feature that converts 16bit/44MHz CD to a 24bit/88MHz signal?
I have found that in "Remaster 2" mode, using the RP91's D/A (Outlaw 950 in bypass mode), the quality of CD music is significantly improved.

Of the three Remaster settings, 1,2 & 3, I have settled on 2 for most listening, but the upsample algorithim is slightly different for each. Have you found this feature benficial? and if so, how do you do use it?

Thanks

Allan

Exactly, but bear in mind that these reviews are not just "well I feel it's better": they are a set of criteria that's listed prior to the shootout and explained in great detail. The tests are therefore repeatable and unbiased.



True, although I've heard that the picture improvement is not of the same order of magnitude that you get when you eliminate D/A and A/D in audio. That is, apparently, the picture improvement with DVI is not a huge one. I can't confirm or deny this, since I haven't seen it, but that seems to be the scuttlebut from the cogniscenti.



Actually, I've heard from a number of sources that the Pioneer Elite players' audio is awful. The only reason I didn't bring it up earlier is that I don't recall the source.

If you're interested, go to the SMR forums and post a thread on this topic. I'm betting that Stuart might be able to point you to reviews and/or tests that back this up.




I agree that this is the best approach. My Panasonic player also has DVD-A, but this was a side-effect: I bought the player with the best video available, and it happened to have DVD-A. Until more discs become available, I'm not terribly concerned with DVD-A performance in my system.

Jeff

Allan, I believe the 91 has the older Genesis chipset, with the 82 having the FLI2200 Genesis/Sage/Faroudja chip onboard. Both the 91 and 82 units supposedly use the same high-end MPEG decoder on-board. And any product (other brands used the Panasonic platform) with this one, will be without the chroma bug. Although others choices which do display the Chroma problem do not always exhibit to a degree which greatly bothers the owners.
For CD play sometimes I use both the Outlaw and 91's DAC’s. It depends on the CD.
I started trying to firm up BM in the 91 with different discs, and never finished playing with the re-master options. Early on I believe I mistakenly thought that the re-master only worked in analog output (when I sped read about the Denon problems with it) so I did not scroll through the choices very often during heavy playing the first days I owned it as I was mucking mainly in digital output those days. Mostly I’ve played with re-master off and bypass-video function. . Need to go back and play with it some more. I have a lot left to learn in bass management but I used to spend more time figuring out how to handle that on CD play. Since the 91 has no BM in CD or DVD-A play. I’ll sometimes listen to CD’s Via the 91 analog outputs but depending on the CD, will also use the digital input on the 950 for some of my stereo listening. Honestly work tied me up, and I never sorted out a ‘default’ to leave the 91 or the 950 in. Depending on the CD, I’ll just scroll through some of my choices till it sounds right. When I use the digital output from the 91 there is a bass signal added to the bitstream. It seemed (maybe that was one reason, or I just preferred the 950’s DAC’s with certain recordings) better for some of my discs via digital, and conversely others through the 91’s analog outputs.
I need to try out the re-master setting on certain CD’s I purchase since I acquired the 91 to see if there are marked differences I can distinguish. Thanks for the reminder!.

Jeff, I was not referring to a bias of “I like it better” although this has its place in any individuals purchase, and I respect anyone’s right to exercise "Like" Vs "Dislike" subjectively, when the funds come from their own wallet.

I think you leaned my post a direction I was not headed. Was not trying to challenge your shootout criteria I was referencing the BIAS created by tradeoffs, which should properly be left to each individual self-determined grading of priorities.

If the priority is a dual format player. The 82 is necessarily instantly eliminated, no matter how capable its DVD-V performance.

I’ve seen many many Pioneer purchase’s who chose the 45 models for its capability and liked its sound. I remember if memory serves that some owners felt there was weakness on its SACD playback. But were content with its performance. And (just my life) would never throw out the term “awful” without backing it with something concrete in any AV forum, actually I would not use the term at all, since (I don’t own one, but what if I did and you made me cry. ). Those are fighting ‘sounds like’ words and I don’t like fights.
When it launched at full retail, many purchasers could have gone any number of routes if highest priority was the BEST SACD playback on the market but again Not if dual functionality was the #1 purchase criteria.

Personally as regards SACD and DVD-A I find the recordings all over the map in quality. (DVD-A by my own ear, taking other peoples word for the SACD format). I’m not sure if its worth the extra money (or space) to have a dedicated SACD, AND DVD-A AND DVD-V players in your system. (the best of all worlds usually when letting any unit focus on doing ONE thing well). I wonder if its even wise to wait on all that. Who knows if the core media will change before the dual players even reach a point that it is common to have highest quality audio playback with the best video available at a cost only big pockets can afford. Early adopters get the pleasure of having the ability to pick up discs in either format, while SACD and DVD-A are still currently available. If the industry goes as the industry goes HR playback will morph into some entirely different recording medium. In the meantime, those not wanting their title choices limited get the most bank for the buck out of these two mutichannel formats being on board the same unit with decent video capabilities especially when prices are coming down as there are now on the first/second generation of these units.

Just me!

Dear SSL:

Regarding the lack of bass in Analog Bypass Mode... Please check to see that the RP91 speaker set-up menu has all speakers set to large. If not, you may not be sending the full range analog signal to the 950 inputs, and this could cause the drop in bass information in Analog Bypass Mode you described.

When the Outlaw 950 receives an upsampled (24bit/88MHz) PCM digital signal it is only able to process the signal in Digital Stereo Mode. Dolby, DTS and Cirrus Music Modes are not available. The Digital Stereo Mode does, however, allow BM for the two main channels.

For this reason, I prefer to set the Outlaw 950 to Analog Bypass Mode for music that does not benefit from any of the surround sound processing modes. The 950 Bypass Mode sends the full range signal to the Front Main channels. In my experience, the analog output of the RP91 in combination with the 950 in Analog Bypass Mode is excellent.

My particular set-up utilizes a sound processor, for the Front Main channels (for bass frequencies only), and therefore allows for BM in the Analog Bypass Mode. The Outlaw ICBM can also be used for this purpose.

For CD music that will benefit significantly from multi-channel sound processing, it is not possible to use the Remaster feature of the RP91. For these recordings, Remaster should be turned off, and the 950 can do its thing, in whatever digital mode works best.

I hope this is of some help. I believe your Vienna's are wonderful speakers that can give voice to the benefits of the RP91's upsampling capabilities.

Allan

[This message has been edited by AGAssarsson (edited June 30, 2003).]