Because I am considering the 7500 I emailed ATI a few questions about the ATI 2005 vs. Outlaw 7500. Primarily I am interested in how the published specs can be identical for 2 products so far apart in price. It would seem that the electronics in one or the other would cause some change in specs.

I have yet to get a reply.

I also spoke on the phone to a rep from wwsp.com. He was located in NH a mile or so from Outlaw HQ. He did say that the 7500/7700 were made by ATI to Outlaws specs but were nothing like the ATI 2005/2007.

Interesting!

At one time there were photos of the inerds on the 7500 posted, but I can't seem to find them now. I think I remember that the two brands looked very similar.

Bugbitten,

Not quite sure who wwsp.com is but based upon the specs the guts of the 7500 are the same as the ATI 2005. Even the manuals of the amps are pretty much the same. The only difference (besides the face plate) that I have observed is the 7500 channels are evenly spaced in the chassis while the 2005 are not. ATI offers to add channels to the 2000 series (up to 7 of course) for the $300 each. So I guess the 7700 and 2007 would be the same. As far as the price, bricks and mortar add a lot of cost.

I have no idea who wwsp.com is, so I don't know how accurate his information is. ATI's customer support may not be allowed to disclose differences between their own brand's products and those of a different brand that they also manufacture. As AvFan points out, traditional distribution channels add a good bit of money - that's one of the reasons Outlaw was established in the first place.

wwsp.com is an internet authorized (at least they say so) retailer in NH. Sorry for leaving that out.

ATI should be able to respond why I should want to buy the ATI brand.

No response so far.

I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting for a reply from ATI. Take a look at the post on the "naked pictures" of the 7500 and I think you will conclude the ATI and Outlaw are the same. The 7500/7700 are great rebadged ATI amps and Outlaw offers the 30 day return policy and a 5 year warranty. You won't really loose anything except shipping if you don't like the 7500/7700. If a great deal on a 2005 had not come up (two days before Outlaw announced the 7500/7700!!) I would have purchased the 7500 because I was confident it was to be made by ATI based upon comments I got from Outlaw. The info since the announcement confirms the ATI 2000 series is the same as the 7500/7700.

I went from a Pioneer Elite receiver (much like your Denon) to the 990/2005 and I am very pleased. IMO, if you replace your Denon 3805 with the 990/7500 you will also see a big improvement.

Well. I didn't get an email!


ATI called!!!!!


A marketing rep from ATI called this afternoon (am to him).

The first words out of his mouth after the courtesies was the disclaimer. "I cannot disclose any intricacies of the Outlaw amp, and, we have no ownership of Outlaw".

Then he sang the Outlaw's praises. "A great bargain." Very similar to the ATI 2005.

Then the comparison. "Ford makes the Expedition (7500)vs Lincoln's Navigator (ATI 2005). They both have the same frame and you upscale to get the other." "The ATI 2005 is like Outlaw 7500 on steroids." The basics of the two amps are the same. All you have to do is look at internal photos of each.

He told the story of ATI starting as SAE. He listed companies that ATI makes amps for including Onkyo, Integra, JBL, Creston and others. Most are designed by ATI to customer specs, but not all.

He said that the 2005 and 2007 had the same toroid amps. The 2007 adds modules for the additional channels. One main difference between the two was the ability to upgrade an ATI 2005 to a 2006/2007 by returning it to ATI. Using the larger toroid amps in the 2005 (7500), was overkill but necessary for the upgrade path to the 2007.

He said that while the MSRP was $900 higher for the ATI, the street price was $1900 or $400 higher than the Outlaw 7500. He said that there are authorized (he emphasized the importance of being authorized) dealers who sold for the street price. He said that Outlaw's internet sales and outsourced manufacturing make possible huge savings for the consumer.

We talked about the features of the ATI 2000 and 3000 series while I looked at an ATI brochure (link) on-line. We discussed the excellence of ATI design, engineering and manufacture used for all amps ATI produces. We discussed the differences you could see looking at photos of the 7500 and 2000/3000 series.

We discussed the fact that ATI and Outlaw products don't show up often, or stay long, on sites like Audiogon. He said that it would be hard to find an ATI 2005 on a dealer shelf. Most sales drop ship from the factory. Most audio boutiques keep lower end models on the floor. ATI is not sold through the big box stores. He said that there are a few dealers nationally authorized but in recent years contracts are written for local sales only.

I appreciated his call and his frankness. From what we dicussed I believe the 7500 is what he said, "A great bargain".

Great work Bug. I know this issue has been "bugging" you (sorry, I couldn't resist). As I've mentioned in my PM's, I'm really enjoying the sound of the 7500. I just haven't been sure about comparisons to other seperates as my reference point was an older Yamaha receiver at 85 WPC. So, going to a 990/7500 combo from that really isn't a fair fight.

Regards.

Bug,

That's great that ATI called and gave you the straight scoop! Maybe they are checking out the Saloon and saw your post. I'm curious, what differences did the rep note between the 7500 and the 2000/3000? I know the channel spacing of the 2005 allows for two more channels (@$300 each), but is there anything else?

But I guess the real question is: Now that you got your questions answered are you going to pull the trigger on a 7500/7700 and 990?

Interesting the mentioned differences...Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator...When I bought my 950 and it was compared to the Atlantic design, their differences were the matching blue LEDs (to their other gear...not a plus for me) and they used a machined aluminum volume knob while the Outlaws used a plastic one (I could probably order their aluminum knob if I HAD to have one...I don't)...you just found out the charm of the Outlaw equipment and seemingly talked to someone who is a straight shooter (perhaps new Outlaw Employee???) at ATI...Good Luck.
Bill

One thing that I forgot to mention was very important. He said that He didn't know if I would hear any difference between the ATI 2005 amp and the Outlaw 7500. He obviously thinks highly of the product.

I have to think of it as a win-win situation for ATI. They sell an amp either way.

I'll decide now about whether or not to sell my monoblocks and get the 7500.

Bug