Still on the fence.

After some PMs to members of this forum and discussion on the S&V forum, I am beginning to think my old ears will not hear an improvement by changing from M200s to a 7500/7700.

Members who have had both tell me not to expect a "significant" change.

Maybe money spent better elsewhere?

I'm a firm believer in spending the lion's share of the loot on the speakers, then a good pre-amp/processor, then an amp. At the very end of the chain, I worry about the source components (at least for CD/DVD) and then I purchase based on features.

I've heard the M200 and I can hear quite a difference between that and my 755. I'm certainly not old (pushing 40...Oh God, I said it!), but I'd give your ears a bit more credit. 8-)

Cheers,

Ritz: OK, I just have to ask the question. Exactly what difference did you hear and what do you attribute the difference to since they are both 200 watt amps?

Anyone else care to answer about real or perceived differences in the two amps?

Bugbitten,

I think your ears will hear a difference if you replace your Denon 3805 with a 990 versus changing your amplification. I had a Pioneer Elite 43TX which may be similar to your Denon. I originally ordered the 990 with five M2200s but for various reasons sent the 2200s back to Outlaw (great customer service I might add). I then found a deal on an ATI2005 (very close cousin of the 7500) just before the release of the 7500.

I compared the 990/5-2200 setup to the Pioneer using 5 2200s; the 990 was significantly better (clarity, dialog, surround speaker use, etc) than the Pioneer as a pre/pro. I will say the 2200s did improve the sound of the Pioneer as a pre/pro over its internal amps, however it did not have the "wow" factor of when the 990 was used. I can't say for sure that the difference between the pre/pro attributes of the Denon and 990 are that significant; maybe someone has done the same comparison with your Denon that I did with the Pioneer.

Later when I got the ATI2005 I compared the Pioneer to the 990/2005 combo and as I expected the 990/2005 was a huge improvement over the Pioneer.

There was a three month gap between when I sent the 2200s back to Outlaw and I got the 2005 so I can't report on a head-to-head comparison between the 2200s and the ATI2005. There may be a difference in the sound quality between the 7500 and the 2200s but my impression is that the 990 was the significant contributor to improved sound. My recollection is that there was not any real difference between the amps, they were both just so much better than the Pioneer when used with the 990.

It's beginning to sound like I need to get a 990/7500 combo and A/B with the Denon/M200s.

Would anyone come?

That would be a great comparison. With all that gear in one location I think you could provide your opinions on a number of combinations folks have asked about regarding pre/pro and amp choices. A number of folks use Axioms too making the comparison even more useful. If you were in southern California I'd jump at the chance to listen and compare, but the commute to Kentucky is just a bit too long. Let us know what you decide to do and if you can get some Outlaws to help out.

Anyone know what the peak power handling specifications are for both the 7500 and the 2200?

i currently use the denon 3805 with seperate amps. i got it before the 990 was available, but a processor with high quality electronics compared to another is hard to compare sound wise. on the order of importance for the sound, a processor is not at the top. speakers reproduce the sound and are the key to having a sound you like. a processor is judged differently. accuracy of reproduction, features, connections, formats, remote possibilities, etc. it would be nice to have xlr capability/flexibility, but i havent looked back for one second with the 3805. denon even gave me a free remote way out of warranty for the remote when mine had loss of light in the dvd control mode.

one big reason i was reluctant for seperates is because of upgrading, it is easier to resell a receiver than a processor. i felt i could get everything i needed and not lose much if i wanted a change. people who have processors are not typically going to plunk down a lot of cash on an older unit, because people who have processors are typically more critical listeners... im sure the 990 is nice though. speakers make the sound, and you cant ever forget that. trade all your gear out and you can get a 1% change, trade your speakers and you can get 99%.

cure: I agree with your analysis. That is why I bought an Onkyo 703 receiver for all of its features. I looked around studying everything that I could find for over a year. I did this with the notion that I would buy a seperate amp and use the Onkyo preouts. Outlaw amps are on my short list but I am having a most difficult deciding which amp to buy. Most all of the specs are very similar and I am beginning to believe that peak power capability is more important than RMS power.

Maybe we can get a discussion going on this thread about Peak Power versus RMS Power for an audio system?