Hello,

I recently purchased an Oppo BDP-83 Blu Ray player. It is connected to a Carver 125 watt per channel 5 channel amp. I am considering purchasing a dedicated preamp or an av receiver with Audessy. I would like to spend no more than $500, but frankly that doesn't leave me many options for a preamp. The OutLaw 970 is the only preamp that I am aware of that meets that criteria, as it is occasionally on sale for $299. Being as objective as you can, would you purchase the Outlaw 970 or say a Marantz SR5003 receiver with Audessy? I have heard numerous pro's and cons regarding the Audessy. Also if I upgrade my BDP-83 to the SE version, would I need to purchase an OutLaw 990 to enjoy the improved sound or would the 970 still be fine? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks for your help.

The advantages of Audyssey can vary depending on the space acoustics and the quality of the receiver or processor. In my space, it is nice but not earth-shattering. In fact, the BDP-83's analog output (which doesn't benefit from Audyssey) is extremely well matched to digital output when connected to an Onkyo PR-SC885 (which does benefit from Audyssey). The 885 and is a more substantial processor than either the 970 or the SR5003.

If you upgrade the BDP-83 to the BDP-83SE, you are upgrading the power supply and the analog section. This upgrade will only yield a benefit to you if you are using the BDP-83's analog output, in which case you aren't using Audyssey anymore (no matter what processor you have). In that scenario, a product with a good, clean analog path is really all you need - and the Model 970 would likely be right up near the top of that list, especially considering your budget. The Model 990 has a few more bells and whistles, and it has better DAC's, but you aren't interested in its DAC's when the BDP-83SE is your source. A 970/83SE combo is actually a pretty compelling package.

Gonk,

I have read a lot of your posts here and you are very knowledgeable and helpful. I was initially considering upgrading to the SE and picking up the 970, but others suggested I upgrade to an av receiver with more bells and whistles. I do see that OutLaw is pairing the Oppo BDP-83 with the 970 and the SE with the 990. I understand the 990 and 970 probably can't be compared, but would the sound be noticeably better with the 990? I didn't want to breakdown and spend more than $500-600, but I have also been waiting for reviews on the Emotiva UMC-1. People at Oppo told me if I go that route they suggested I don't upgrade to the SE. It's just so confusing.

By the way I do have a very nice system listed below are my individual components.

Samsung PN50B650
Front L & R Speakers JBL-L112
Center Speaker JBL ?
Rear Surrounds Bose 301's
Carver Amazing Sunfire Sub 1800 watts
Blu Ray Player Oppo BDP-83
Carver AV-705X 125 watt per channel

Placed in the garage Carver CT-28 preamp
Sony Digital Preamp DSP-EP9ES

The Model 990 will likely offer the biggest sound quality benefit for digital audio sources, but what I've heard of the Model 970 indicates that the analog path for sources that simply "pass through" (no analog-to-digital and digital-to-analog conversions) is quite good. The BDP-83 would be just such a source as long as you didn't set the rear panel bass management switch to "DIGITAL". (See my Model 970/BDP-83 setup guide for my suggestions regarding this switch.) At that point the differences between Model 970 and Model 990 would be minimized.

OPPO Digital was quite right to steer you away from the SE if you are looking at an HDMI-based processor or receiver. If you use HDMI for your audio, the SE upgrade is a waste of money.

I have my Oppo hooked to my 970 via the 7.1 analog inputs. I have no other connection except the HDMI to DVI. Do I need to make a digital connection in order for the 970 to output DD True HD or DTS-HD MA? The only time I have seen the 970 show Dolby Digital on the screen was with a broadcast signal, via a digital cable direct from the tv to the 970. I don't even get it through my cable box. Do I have these all things hooked up all wrong??

If you set it up correctly you will get DD True HD and DTS-MAHD via analog. I'm not sure if you looked at gonk's set up link for the 83 but you might want to refer to it and make sure you've got things set up correctly:

http://prillaman.net/setup-970bdp83.html

Not sure why you've got your tv out to the 970 instead of the cable box directly in, but if you follow the instructions above you'll be fine.

I have the Cable box to the TV via HDMI, then connect the TV to the 970 via optical. This way I can watch HDTV without having to fire up the whole system. Is it possible that I may need an optical connection from the cable box to the 970 also?

At some point, either the cable box or the TV need to break the digital audio signal out and pass it to the 970. I would think that this would be best accomplished as early in the process as possible, so I'd try an optical connection from the cable box to the 970 and see if this gives you any improvement.
I tried using seperate inputs on the tv so that i could switch from the main system speakers to the tv speakers when I wished but found that this simply added complexity to the system an increased The Boss's fustration level when she wanted to change channels.
The proof of the pudding is how it sounds to you.

I run my DirecTv audio via optical to my 970, and I have the DirecTv receiver connected to my TV via HDMI, so I can watch tv independently of having my system on.

This is what I am trying to accomplish, but when I have the TV set to the cable box, I only get PLII (x,m,or c) into the 970. When I switch the TV to my roof antenna, the 970 receives the DD. If the cable is outputting a digital signal via HDMI, then shouldn't the TV send that via optical to the 970 as does my broadcast antenna?

OK. Oppo is reading Digital on the analog 7.1 inputs.
I added another optical cable from the cable box to the 970.
The 970 seems to know which input is coming from the TV, either antenna or cable, and switches automatically. Still getting digital on the antenna, but when switched to the cable box, even with an optical cable, the results are still the same as before.... Is anyone else running a Cablevision Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR box and having this problem?

Using DirecTv, there are a lot of times when my source will not 'read' as Dolby Digital...at times I get the same issue as you do, but it depends on the broadcast source. It will switch from Dolby ProLogic II x to Dolby Digital, depending on the source. I don't know why all sources aren't broadcast in DD, but it appears (based on input readout on the 970) that a number aren't. Commercials especially don't appear to be in DD.

I am playing a bit of catch-up here, but it sounds like you have an optical cable running from the TV back to the 970. The problem here is most likely that the TV is telling the cable box (via HDMI) what audio it supports, and the cable box is adjusting its audio output accordingly. Thus when the cable box is getting Dolby Digital 5.1, the TV wants stereo and the box decodes and downmixes the DD 5.1 to PCM stereo. On the other hand, when the TV receives an over-the-air broadcast, it outputs the audio from that broadcast directly to the optical output and assumes that whatever is at the other end can handle it. When you see "PLIIx" at the 970, that could mean you are getting Dolby 2.0 or PCM stereo. If you see "DD+PLIIx" then you are getting a Dolby 5.1 signal and applying Pro Logic IIx to that to get 7.1.


Hmmm.... First, when you say "OPPO is reading Digital on the analog 7.1 inputs" what do you mean?

Second, the Model 970 will always analyze the incoming digital audio signal and identify what it is. The audio from your TV's over-the-air tuner will vary between Dolby 2.0 and Dolby 5.1, depending on the program. The audio from the cable box will vary between Dolby 5.1, Dolby 2.0, and PCM stereo, depending on the channel and the program.

I use an 8300HD box. One thing that may be an issue in your case is the way it handles audio output. The specific options may vary between service providers, but in my experience you have to tell it what audio output you want: HDMI, Dolby Digital, and Other. The first causes the box to output via HDMI only, I believe. The second tells it that you are using optical or coaxial digital output and want Dolby Digital bitstreams. The third tells it that you are using optical or coaxial but can only handle a stereo signal. Try selecting "Dolby Digital" at the cable box, tune to an HD channel that you know is broadcasting Dolby 5.1, and see what the 970 gets.


You are actually getting Dolby Digital, I think, but it is only DD 2.0 and I think the 970 is reporting the surround processing mode as Pro Logic IIx. I've seen a few cases where surround processors and receivers decode DD 2.0 and treat the resulting signal as if it had always been PCM stereo when reporting the surround processing mode. Because a lot of HD broadcasts use DD 2.0 rather than creating 5.1 audio mixes, you see the 970 reporting "PLIIx" instead of "DD+PLIIx" or "DD" fairly often.

Another thing: I've said it before (a lot of times), but trying to set up a home theater so you can watch some sources without the surround processor being turned on is actually much more difficult than it may seem at first glance. I generally recommend that people not try to do this because it makes the system more difficult to use, while the intent is usually to make it simpler. You're better off turning the whole system on. If you have family who need help operating it and are intimidated by the system, get a good universal remote.

First off.....I have the Oppo working correctly.
Second..... The cable box is not outputing Dolby Digital to the 970 in any shape, manner, or form. I don't even know where to look in the cable box for audio output. I tried direct optical cable to the 970 with the same resultes as going through the TV. PLIIx is the most I can get from the box, but the antenna gives me DD plus PLIIx processing. Spoke to Cablevision, and someone is coming out tomorrow. It seems there are other issues with the box, and having someone here, hopefully will solve all my issues.

I have always had my system set up so that I didn't have to fire up everything just to watch TV. I live alone, but I don't usually fire the system up unless I plan to watch a movie or sporting event. With the advent of newer toys, it seems complexity increases.

It has always been a bit more complicated to retain the ability to bypass a surround processor, but HDMI in particular has compounded that. Before, if you didn't want to use your surround processor for video switching and your source had both analog and digital outputs, it was a (relatively) straightforward process, as long as you didn't want to do it for multiple sources. HDMI is a different matter, though - both because it combines audio and video into a single cable and because it uses EDID information (which isn't always the most reliable in the first place) to dictate some settings. It really is a non-trivial task to get a system working effectively this way.

Gonk,

my main concern now is whether the cable box is supposed to give me the digital signal or not. My GF got me all screwed up earlier, and made me change my appointment to Thurs instead of tomorrow for the cable guy. The other issues I'm having are pixilation, audio & video freezing, blank screens after changing a channel, and total loss of control from the remote.

Yes, the box should provide a digital signal. However, it may not be able to provide audio via both coaxial/optical and HDMI at the same time. I'd have to test that to be sure - but my local provider's box firmware has been flaky regarding digital output lately anyway, so I wouldn't entirely trust the results of any testing I did.

Is all of that related to the cable box?

All problems seem related to the box as far as picture related problems. the newest thing seems to be a black screen (no audio either) for an indefinite amount of time leading to a reboot in order to get it to show a picture and sound. I was pointed to a thread on the AVS forum that says there's a choice in the audio settings to choose either HDMI (which will be a stereo signal) or Digital (which is supposed to force DD over the HDMI and/or Optical digital outputs). When I switched the audio to digital, I got no sound at all from the tv, but didn't try the 970. Tomorrow I will fire everything up, maybe reconnect the digital cable from the box to the 970, and see how it goes.

Box switched and got replies at other forums. Was told (Via AVS forum) that going into the settings and switching from HDMI to DD would force DD through the HDMI. Well, that doesn't work. Cable guy told me I had to route the optical from the box to the 970 directly, as does this post I found from someone quoting page 12 form my Samsung manual.....

Thanks for your help!!

This is most likely because the cable box is using HDMI to verify with the TV what is appropriate - and the TV is probably telling it "I have only two speakers - please give my PCM stereo!" At that point, it will override everything else. As I suggested earlier in the week, that means the HDMI cable will never be fed a DD bitstream by the box under these circumstances.

I agree with the cable guy in this case - routing the audio signal through the TV as you were initially trying to do is a very problematic arrangement when dealing with multichannel audio of any sort. Going straight from cable box to the 970 is really the way to go.

I already had it wired but didn't yet know about the digital settings in the cable box.... so I unplugged it. Will do it again tomorrow and switch the setting and see how it sounds.