Most of you Outlaws have probably already seen these, but I have re-posted them for those who haven't. I work professionally in the motion picture industry (with music scores), so I need a system that is compatibe with that of a movie dubbing stage, so that mixes I do in my studio will translate well into the final mix. Therefore, some of the components (such as the speakers) are the same ones found on a dubbing stage or cinema (although I have tweaked all of them to a great extent to refine their performance).

The Soundhound Theater



[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited July 01, 2003).]

Jealous beyond words as always my friend....

Can I move in? LOL

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Play it LoUd!!

Soundhound you have easily the most complex set-up i have ever seen. I love your comment about not powering up the main systems amp's so in turn you use the secondary system. I want to have the same dilemma.

You helped me with a stereo subwoofer hook-up question I had. I followed your advice and am very pleased with the strong clean bass I now have with this wiring suggestion. One question though, do you still suggest a ICBM with this set-up?Thanks!!

Thanks for the kind words.

In my original stereo sub post, I suggested using the low level crossover in your subs. In this case, the ICBM would not be needed. I actually have passive subs and an external electronic crossover (60Hz), that does basically what the ICBM would do in such a setup.

Um....do you do housework and cooking???

I can cook, but the housework is questionable, Hahahahahaha.

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Play it LoUd!!

I thought I would continue the discussion of the tri-amp/bi-amp situation here, since it regards your system and your setup "philosophy" for playback.

For those of you who wondered where this discussion started, I put a question to SH in the "200 Feedback" area of the Saloon, under "Found this on Audiogon." Since my question was off the topic of that thread, I jumped here to continue.

Not considering the subwoofers, you are essentially running a bi-amp system for your front three. I could not tell by the pics at your studio web page, are your mains or center channel speakers three-way? If so, is a passive, speaker-level crossover handling the split between mids and highs? Are you 'happy,' or at least 'satisfied,' with that?

As always, good to have a discussion with you! (To put a small twist on a common phrase, the announcer bellows: "Are you ready to R A M B L E?" At least our rambling may help a few folks, eh?)

My main left and right speakers are two way, and so is the center. Ignore that little supertweeter on top of them in the pictures; I used to have them crossed over with a single capacitor to the JBL supertweeter at 11Khz but found they caused more problems than they solved. So, what I have is my left and right are two way and crossed over at 1,200Hz. The cabinets which you may recognize are Altec Lansing A7-500s (!) that have been pretty heavily tweeked, since I used to work for Altec as an electronics engineer, and had full access to all their resources. The center has the same Altec Lansing high frequency horn and compression driver, but it is crossed over at 500Hz to two flanking 12 inch woofers. The crossover for this speaker is before the power amp and is a passive L-C type which feeds a stereo McIntosh MC240 tube amp with one channel for the bass and another for the highs. A passive crossover at line level is a completely different animal sonically than at speaker level. It is much more precise, and since the impedances are higher, more reasonable values for the capacitor and inductor can be used.

I have been tweaking this system for 20+ years!!! I have always used electronic crossovers for the mains, but different crossover slopes and different frequencies. Active crossovers are essential for these speakers, or they can sound really bad, which is why some people are astonished by my use of these A-7 speakers (they have a bad reputation mainly because of their horrid stock passive crossover, un-damped high frequency horn and flimsy cabinet). To answer your question, yes, I am very satisfied with them at this point.......until I think of something else to tweak

Soundhound,

How does the sound of your main speaker set-up compare to some of older Klipsch products? Years ago (in the days of stereo) I owned a pair of Cornwalls, which I traded for a pair of La Scala Pro's - which if I recall correctly had much the same drivers as the K-Horns - one of my all-time favourite speakers.

I loved the sound of the old horns - but space and weight (living at my parents and consuming most of their basement with gear) became a problem, so they got traded for something else.

I eventually settled on the Koss 1030s whose sound is somewhat "horn like" - and which are only some 6 dB less efficient than typical big horn cabinets.

Regards.

Jeff Mackwood

Jeff:

My mains don't sound much like Klipsch horns at all, and if fact, they don't sound much like any horn speaker. They really sound more like any good dynamic type speaker, but with much more authority. People who hear them tend to say that the sound of the speakers is "cinerama" in nature, and big, but not "blairing" like horns can be. I've tried through the years to get them to sound this way, basically having the best parts of dynamic radiator and horn. Tube amps help tremendously, especially SET triodes for the HF horns.

Klipsch horns have always sounded to me like I would expect a horn to sound; a bit forward and sometimes biting. I would imagine that if you did the same things I have done to my A-7s, the early Klipsch horns would loose all of these harsher qualities.

As an aside, the "constant directivity" horn concept was originally developed at Altec Lansing shortly before I started working for them. All currently available horns, including Klipsch with their "tracix" design are of this type. I do not like this type of horn design, and never did from my first contact with them. While the concept of "even" dispersion of all frequencies in all planes seems like a solid benefit for a horn, in practice, what results is simply a horn that sounds like it has too much treble, and this accentuates the traditional bad tendency of horns to sound "forward". The current Klipsch HT speakers sound a bit like this to me, and I have read some posts making comments on their relative excess high frequency energy.

The design of horn that I do like is the traditional exponential flare type. The dispersion of this type of horn somewhat matches that of a direct radiator dynamic speaker, and sounds more like them. When matched with appropriate electronics and crossover, they can sound basically like a good "direct radiator on steroids". Unfortunately, exponential flare horns are no longer manufactured, at least in any quantity.


[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited June 11, 2003).]

In my early days of television (the late 70's) I had a television engineer friend that really liked the horns by Emilar (sp?) for mids/highs. He was building custom two-way systems with these. Ever had the chance to use/listen to these? I wonder if they are still manufacturing.

I've heard of Emilar (sp?) but never heard them that I can remember. I think they now reside in the dust bin of ancient audio history

Soundhound,

tried to view your system via the link in your original post but earthlink states they can't find it. Any suggestions.
John

I took the pictures down, to clear some webspace, but I will put them back up today.

The pictures are back up......

Thanks

Soundhound, do you have a wife or SO? I can't imagine this set up in my home with my wife. I have to have as much as possible hidden from view. In the end it actually looks nice, but then I don't use my equipment for work. I did not notice in your pictures where you store your CDs, DVDs, albums, and reels. Wish I could hear your systems.

Thanks. My "Home Theater" is really my studio where I do my music editing and mixing work, and it is a dedicated room removed from the rest of the house (that would be my wife's territory!). There are two walk-in closets where I keep all the software, cables and other stuff. I also have a room in the house off the service porch that is an electronics lab where I build and repair my stuff and store parts and cables etc. I'm thankful I have this room because it would probably be pretty hard to find a wife that would put up with all that stuff in HER living room!!

And from the "Everything Old is New Again" department - this article is from Stereophile's Guide to Home Theater website.

I use Altec Lansing A-7-500 "Voice of the Theater" speakers in my studio, and the pair I have I purchased in 1969. It seems they are the "next new thing", costing $4,000.00 each!. I paid around $350.00 each for them in 1969. I couldn't afford my own speakers now!!!

Read on, and check out the link:

July 7, 2003 — A classic is returning to the home theater market.

At the end of May, Altec Lansing Technologies announced that it would reintroduce its legendary A7 "Voice of the Theatre" loudspeaker. The first and only speaker series to be approved by the Research Council of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, the A7 was the worldwide standard for motion picture playback throughout the 1950s, '60s, and '70s, enjoying widespread use in recording studios, night clubs, and rock venues. The "Voice of the Theatre" was "the most listened-to speaker system in the world, thrilling millions over its long and distinguished reign," according to a May 28 press announcement.

The Milford, PA–based manufacturer, which has spent the past decade concentrating on the computer audio market, has decided the time is ripe to reintroduce the A7 to a new generation of movie fans—and to collectors who grew up enjoying the speaker's warm, powerful sound. The new A7 is being manufactured in the USA "using the same materials, the same specs and production drawings, and even the same tools used in the original product," according to execs at Altec.

"Every detail, every specification is based on historic research and painstaking design analysis. For anyone from vacuum tube amplification fans to modern-day digital system lovers, the new A7 is a piece of history they can enjoy right in their own music room or home theater," said company president said Mark Lucas, President and Chief Executive Officer of Altec Lansing. "The new A7 is a meticulous re-issue of our original product," he emphasized. The new model is an "acoustic match of the original," according to advance publicity, despite boasting an improved frequency response. The crossover network is said to better accommodate modern media such as SACD or DVD-A.

The A7 features several components that were breakthroughs in the field, and that were later adopted by other manufacturers, such as mating the woofer's characteristics to the cabinet, and the use of edge-wound, copper-clad aluminum ribbon voice coils. Originally developed in 1924 by Western Electric engineers who later founded Altec Lansing, the A7's high frequency compression driver features a 100% aluminum diaphragm for extended high frequency performance. Individually numbered speaker cabinets are constructed of 13-layer Baltic Birch, and are finished with the signature "Voice of the Theatre" black splatter finish. Price is $4000 each ($8000/pair), available exclusively through Altec Lansing's website.

http://www.alteclansing.com/legacy/index.asp

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited July 07, 2003).]

The Soundhound picture on the screen looks unbelieveably good. What projector is being used? Is the screen 10' wide or diagonal? What movie is being shown? Thanks for the Altec information. I am about 2 years away from setting up an Altec system for my home theatre.

I confess - I put that picture on the screen with Adobe Photoshop!! I actually took the picture though, if that counts for anything The screen is 10 feet wide, not diagonal.

For soundhound.....

Forgive me Soundhound, maybe I missed where you posted the models of your surrounds. At a glance, they look like the JBL's used at the local Cinemark theatres. Again, if it was on your page, Im sorry for bothering you with this.

Another thing...

I noticed you mention the comeback of the Altecs. Isn't/wasn't there a relationship between Altec and JBL? Im going back in time here, back far enough before Harmon Kardon gobbled everyone up. I was under the impression they were closely related. I assumed James Lansings last name had something to do with it.

As far as I know, JBL speakers are indeed used and approved by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences which makes this next comment seem untrue...

"The first and only speaker series to be approved by the Research Council of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, the A7 was the worldwide standard for motion picture playback throughout the 1950s, '60s, and '70s, enjoying widespread use in recording studios, night clubs, and rock venues."

The word ONLY grabbed my attention. I remember some of these things because in the beginning of my home theatre obsession(about 12 years ago), I was under the impression that JBL speakers, the ones found at BestBuy and Circuit City, were high end. I did all the research I could and came across little tidbits of interesting info and after all these years, I am now recalling some of them.

I guess I'm a little bored and am looking for some conversation

And finally, please check out http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000263.html to see if you feel like replying. I was checking out some of the screens for projectors such as the Stewart Grayhawk line. I had no idea they were that pricey.

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Play it LoUd!!

[This message has been edited by SpOoNmAn (edited July 08, 2003).]

Yup, my surrounds are the ones at your local cinema - JBL 8330s. They're pretty good speakers, and they are a "reference" speaker for me when I mix.

James B. Lansing came to work for Altec in the 1940s (or thereabouts) and lent his name to Altec. He quit Altec Lansing and started JBL (James B Lansing). Shortly thereafter he committed suicide. All this sorrid history can be had on the JBL website where there is a good article on this whole era.

As for the marketing line for the A-7 speaker, I can't refute or confirm the claim. I do know the A-7 was used in practally all cinemas and a lot of recording studios. There were bigger brothers, the A-1, A-2, A-8 etc. The A-1 was HUGE, something like 15 feet wide. The A-7 that Altec is coming out with is not actually the vintage I have, which is earlier. The one they are making is of the era when I worked for them in the late 70s and early 80s. They weren't nearly as good in my opinion as the ones I have, however they apparently upgraded the crossover network, which was always the A-7's weak point, and the reason the speaker got such a bad reputation in PA applications. I use mine with an external active crossover network which solves the problem very well, and they are driven by all those tube amps in my pictures. They DO sound sweet!

I don't really keep up on the projector market, cuz I'm an audio kind of guy. My projector (Sony VPL-400Q) is serving me well, and I intend to keep it until something really better comes along.


[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited July 08, 2003).]

Yeah I bet your speakers sound most excellent. And thanks for the projector comment, and JBL history



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Play it LoUd!!

What is that in the rack to the left of the Soundcraft, a Collins? Very nice.

Good Eyes! Yes, that is a vintage Collins limiter that works like new. You wouldn't happen to know where I could get a schematic of it would you???

If that's a 26U, try here,

http://www.collinsradio.org/26U-1-_07-58_.PDF

Otherwise try here

http://www.collinsradio.org/html/manuals.html

Especially check out the Specifications Data section where they specify audible noise as "none." For comparison purposes, forty-some years later Outlaw only claims a 102dB S/N ratio for the 950 :-).

[This message has been edited by gw10nt (edited July 10, 2003).]

Thanks for the link - I've been trying to find this info for 12 years!!! It looks like my unit. Would you believe I got it at a college auction for $10.00, and I've been offered $5,000.00 for it.



[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited July 10, 2003).]

SH: You are cool as ice.