Not possible. How could your last sentence hold true if plugging an emitter into the IR OUT port of the 970 does nothing? I can't speak on terms of a 'simple cable' to another device, because I have no device to test it with though. (that would assume a device could operate on the 'passive' signal that Steve claimed is coming out of the 970)

Keep in mind our concern here is the IR OUTPUT port. We already know that the INPUT PORT listens to powered, mono emitter capable signals just fine. (as both you an GarcianC have setup)

I'm half a step shy of taking my entire shelf apart just so I can shine a flashlight inside the 970 top vents and see what kind of connector that IR out is. (2 prong MONO or 3 prong STEREO)

From there, I'm inclined to hack the appropriate type of connector wire, use my multi-meter, and determine which pinouts drive what signal.

From there, I'll just feed IR signal,(1 wire) and ground (another wire) directly into a Xantech block and be done with this insanity.

(I already said to hell with waiting and ordered the block. But because I don't know if the Outlaw is directly pin out compatible with the Xantech, I had to go to a 4 out block that has a screw down terminal zone input. ARGH. $45! )

I'm NOT enjoying this part of the adventure if you couldn't tell.

E.

My point is that the IR OUT appears to only serve to pass data that is provided at the IR IN - thus making it a "pass-through." The IR IN jack would send its data to the same place that data from the IR sensor goes, but it would also connect to the IR OUT to pass that data back on down the line. If that were the case, the IR sensor would lack any connection to the IR OUT (since it is simply a copy of the data from the IR IN jack). That scheme matches all of our first-hand experience.

For those that are following along and care...

Rumor has it the pin out wiring assignments for the stereo 1/8" minijack RECEIVER IN port on the Xantech units is:

I HAVE NOT CONFIRMED THIS THOUGH. Use this information at your own risk. It was obtained through a third party, NOT directly from Xantech.

{ETA - UPDATE. I have confirmed the pinouts, and they are as indicated above. I confirmed them on a Xantech installation document}


E.

Agreed.

If it's a 'copy', and the IR OUT port is a MONO jack, then I could see it 'relaying' the signal to other devices with IN ports, IF AND ONLY IF those devices can function on the 'passive' signal.

If I had a device with an IR in port, I'd try it as soon as I got home. Unfortunately, other than the pre/pro itself, I do not. If anyone else is willing to try, post your results. There should be no risk of harm since the passive signal carries no voltage.

E.

I have been busy with other stuff, so I am catching up to this topic.
When I got home, it turned out I only had one mono cable, so I couldn't try my daisy-chain theory.
For the record, I used to own a 970 but now have a 990, so this may not translate.
I connected a 1/8" mono from an "emitter" port form my Xantech distribution block to the IR-in on the 990. Then I connected a LED flasher to the IR-out on the 990. When I used the remote, the flasher blinked (as I expected). I then disconnected the cable going to the 990's IR-in and this time the flasher did not blink when using the remote via the IR sensor (as gonk suggested but not what I was wishing for).
It was a quick and dirty test, so take it for what it's worth.

That's a VERY VERY interesting development.

Thanks so much for taking the time to try it.

So it sounds like the port on the back of the 990 is a mono port. And it is indeed not linked to the front panel sensor.

Makes me wonder how similar the 970 is to this then. We've been told it's different, but how different?

E.

A couple of major developments...

I'll break them down into seperate thread replies for organizational purposes.

First, I finally got a chance to call Scott back yesterday. He was on the phone, but returned my call later in the afternoon. We discussed the IR issue.

As we've deduced, the IR out is NOT linked to the IR sensor. So there's no using the front panel sensor to 'passthrough' signals to the IR Output port. Can't happen.

What DOES happen, is what we also deduced.

Powered signals fed into the IR Input port are routed rightback out the IR Output port. It is a MONO minijack. This 'relays' the signal to another unit that has an IR input, OR, as GarcianC proved, an IR emitter. The power from the IR emitter originates from the device FEEDING the IR input on the Outlaw.

This is how the term 'passthrough' basically applies to the IR IN/OUT of the Outlaw.

To analogize, think of the IR IN/OUT ports as a 'revolving door' for IR signals on the back side of the unit. Signals can come in, instruct the unit, or leave and pass on to other units. But the Outlaw cannot add signals to the revolving door sequence.

So, to truely do an IR relay, you need a dedicated IR receiver, a connecting block of some sort, a power supply for said connecting block, and either an emitter or a direct mono minijack connection cable to get the signal from the connecting block to the device.

At this point, I had already ordered and received the Xantech block w/ power supply, and if I RMA it and go for a refund, I'm losing $19 in shipping as is. (I'd only be getting $52 back on the actual unit refund) I'll have to suck it up and throw another $60 or so at it and buy a dedicated IR receiver (probbaly a generic one for $35 actually) and complete the IR relay system autonomously from the Outlaw.

Hopefully the efforts of this thread will prevent any confusion for others hoping to understand the IR issues for the 970 and the Outlaw series.

Thanks again, Gonk and GarcianC.

E.

Development #2.

No sound on power up. Again.

It happened last night. The unit sat idle all day long, was played with enthusiasm the night before (Monday night). Around 7PM last night (Tuesday) I turned the NAD on to remove the prior night's CD. (Soundtrack to the Lion King, Disney Studios) I also powered on the 970, which went through it's power on welcome message, and flipped on the amp as well.

As the 970 was going through it's welcome message, the CD starting playing, before I then hit stop, and then eject. The prior input on the 970 was CD, set to Analog Bypass as always. I placed the dvd (Shrek, Dreamworks Inc.) into the player, and close the tray and pushed play. I switched sources to DVD, (Dolby Dig; Coax 1) using the front panel. (input, cursor downs)

Same results as before; the front panel buttons worked (menu, mute, etc) but the volume knob did not APPEAR to work. (but it does, as the volume display changes if you hit menu, and then menu again to return to the main display; the altered volume level then displays)

Controls from the Remote were similar; menu, cursor, mute type functions all worked. Volume commands did nothing. (and actually did nothing; hitting menu twice to 'refresh' the main display still showed the same unchanged volume)

Changing inputs with the remote did not bring out any audio. I was able to switch to DVD, all Videos, etc. and no sound. I confirmed that the Samsung Satellite tuner was off. (keep in mind this thing sends some sort of audio stream through the fiber channel even when 'off' though. I don't know if that's true about the digital coax line)

I then powered off the unit with the remote, and then back on after 3 seconds, and all was normal in the world.

:rolleyes:

For those wondering, I remember reading that 'as long as you started your source after the 970 was waiting for it, it tended to work OK'. I've been deliberately powering on the DVD player before the 970 just to test this theory.

There are plenty of instances where the unit has been on, then turned off for a few minutes, of few hours, and then turned back on without any problem.

There have even been instances where it sat an entire day and powered up fine for that first cold cold start.

I was going to continue testing, by switching and always powering on the 970 first and not powering on the T533 until the welcome message on the 970 was gone, but I decided against it because of development three....

Development #3...

(blip... bloop... blink)

Whoa. What was that?

After watching Shrek, I flipped over to Video 2, (Dig Coax 2) and turned the Samsung Satellite tuner on.

Flipped from channel to channel, and all was fine until...

Moments before NCIS came on there was a jumble of tv commercials. Sort of what you seen when a local station has 'filler' ads at the national level, but a local ad trumps it, so the stream changes within half a second from the advertisement that ran, then the very tail end of the 'filler' that ran underneath the local ad appears suddenly. (along with the audio stream that came with it)

Well, in this bizzare case, the audio streams must have been of widely varying format.

Combined with the new format incoming from the NCIS broadcast (DD 5.1) The 970 officially wigged out.

My guess is that it literally got so confused it outright shut down. Yes, shut down. Not protection mode or anything, just powered off. I thought I had sat on the remote and sent a power off signal or something. (until I looked down and saw the remote on the coffee table by my feet)

After experiencing this, I made the decision not to wait any longer, and grabbed the serial cable I had bought, intent on flashing the unit right then and there, instead of after the super bowl had passed. (I didn't want to chance bricking the unit before a big party)

So, just for clarity's sake, next I'll describe the strangeness of my firmware flashing process...

Ok. So, I said to heck with it.

I had planned on waiting to firmware flash the unit a bit, at least waiting until next week after the super bowl. I wanted to see how many wierd performance issues really popped up.

But when the unit spontaneously shut down when it got confused by an audio stream, I decided not to wait another moment.

I grabbed my serial cable, and downloaded the file.

For those wondering, the file linked by Scott's post at the top of the 970 forum is still considered a beta. It replaces a previous beta that had been in development throughout the past year from what I understand. That beta, was created after the formal release which is posted on the main support page.

My firmware revision number ( Display with Menu + Mute on the front panel) before the upgrade was:

mcp-ot10700602091312

Keep in mind the leading values are not important; as the 1070 and 970 share firmware as we discussed earlier in this thread. The only key difference between the files is the welcome message during startup.

I powered off the 970 from the master power switch on the back.

I plugged the serial cable into the 970, and also into the PC. (IBM Thinkpad, one serial port, COM 1)

I booted the PC, and turned the master power switch for the 970 on.

I then used the bent paper clip to press the reset switch on the back of the 970. I held it in for about 1.5 seconds.

I then ran the Outlaw.exe software. Directed it to the COM port, and the appropriate Hex file.

The flashing process began without any incident. I heard a tiny 'bleeip' from the 970 when the PC connected to it, right before it began erasing the firmware.

It erased, wrote, and verified the firmware in about 3-4 minutes. This is MUCH shorter than the instructions claimed 10 - 15 minutes. So much so that I was worried something didn't go right.

Nonetheless, I figured I'd give it a whirl, and just reflash if necessary.

I unplugged the serial port cable, and grabbed the paperclip to press the reset switch on the back of the unit again. I held it in again for about 1.5 seconds.

I tried to power the unit on with the front panel.

Nothing. I thought, 'that's strange'.

I then powered the master switch off, waited 2 seconds, then back on. Front panel power now worked.

All my old values were still stored in the EEPROM apparently. It defaulted to a power on volume of -50dB.

I pressed menu and mute, and hit '1' on the remote to reset to all defaults.

I then made note of the new firmware revision number during Menu + Mute:

mcp-ot10700701121419

I proceeded to configure the rest of the menus, turning off auto-polling on all inputs again, setting defaults, configuring the speakers, etc. (I won't bore you with those details)

I watched another movie (Cars, Pixar/Disney) and all seemed to perform well.

I will post any further developments if they occur...

E.