Nope, you're understanding it perfectly.

Just perfectly flawed. LOL.

Your premise is sound; it's just not electrically accurate; I know this because I plugged an IR emitter (same as LED) into the OUTPUT port, and directed it right at the device. NO SIGNAL was sent at all. Basically, a MONO minijack does not seem to work with the OUTPUT port.

This is why I'm trying to get Steve to confirm what type of connection the OUTPUT port is.

The test we're trying to confirm is whether the very low/no voltage 'PASSIVE' signal is enough to drive a device via a wire. That's why you'd need to hook the mono minijack wire from the 970's OUTPUT port into the device's INPUT port.

E.

You lost me at "electrically"... LOL

I am a "software guy" and very often make the mistake (especially when a "signal" is involved) of thinking of things in digital terms and forgetting about electrical principles.

I think I'll wait to hear what Steve has to say.

LOL

Well, these signals ARE supposed to be 'digital' in a sense; they would show as a waveform (standard current) on a scope but the amplification level will vary based on the amount of power that is applied. (voltage) Nevermind any of that though, as it's not pertinent. :p

What I'm trying to discern is if a low voltage (what we're calling 'passive', since it's not enough voltage to drive an IR emitter at about 1.5V) signal from the Outlaw IR Output is enough to be read by a peripheral device's (like your satellite tuner) INPUT port.

Typically, the input port is expecting a full voltage (powered) signal from the Xantech connecting block. (as demonstrated by it working ok in your setup)

Since there is LESS voltage being applied to the IR OUTPUT from the Outlaw than what the Xantech POWERED OUTPUT gives off, there's no danger to any components hooked into that port.

Hope that makes sense.

E.

I just got off the phone with Steve.

At this point, he's still looking into it, but the initial thoughts are that he recalls the 990 having a 3 pin (stereo) minijack socket for the IR OUTPUT. I would tend to think the 970 is built the same way.

In this case, it would most likely be IMPOSSIBLE for the IR OUTPUT to put a passive signal out that a peripheral device would be able to use on it's own IR INPUT port. (given the misaligned stereo/mono connectors/ports and all)

Steve is going to call me back with more info after he finishes checking into what port is specifically on the 970 circuit board, and how it directly interfaces with the Xantech connecting block.

From what I can tell, he understands my goal (using the 970, it's IR output port and some kind of connection cable in place of a dedicated $45 Xantech IR Receiver) and my safety concerns (the 12V+ that the Xantech applies to it's Receiver IN port that might go up the line, into the 970's IR OUTPUT port and circuit board, thus letting the magic smoke out of the Pre/pro.



E.

I've missed a bunch while being in my latest hours-long meeting of the week...

First, the 990 and 970/1070 have very different IR support - as I mention in my 990 review, the 990 requires a special interface module to operate with equipment like the Xantech connector blocks we're discussing here, whereas the 950 and the 970/1070 do not. I would not expect anything from the 990 to carry over to the 970 as far as behavior. If I get a chance, I may try to run the 990's output to the input of my connecting block (although the meeting notes and meeting agenda that are demanding my attention tonight and the chiller room layout that has kicked them out of the work day make that test unlikely), but I don't think the results would be of use for the 970. The best bet at this point is probably to see what Steve comes back with.

Thanks gonk. I recommend that, if the manual is ever revised, the IR section be updated. Page 9 of the 990's manual has an identical description to what's in the 970's manual:
"IR output (see page 22) Use this output to feed an infrared flasher attached to another piece of audio/video gear. Any infrared remote signal received by the Model 990’s front-panel sensor or by an external sensor connected to the Model 990 will be relayed through this jack, so concealed audio/video devices can be controlled by remote."

Someone who has owned both preamps would likely be expecting identical behavior based on the manual.

I guess I should thank Elmosaurus for being so detailed oriented and helping (at least me) understand our gear better. I would have never thought to ask.

I got a PM back from Steve, after talking with him about it this afternoon.

He seemed to reiterate that there was no 12VDC power supplied by the IR In or Out ports of the Outlaw units. :rolleyes:

I don't think he understands what I'm asking. I thought I made it very very clear what I was trying to accomplish while talking with him on the phone.

(ie, replace the Xantech IR receiver module entirely using the 970, it's IR OUT port, and some kind of connecting cable.)

I also thought I made it clear my MAIN concern (and the reason I won't just plug it in and 'try it' like I normally would) is because I KNOW the port on the Xantech connecting block is powered. My concern being that that powered port could deliver voltage to the IR OUT port of the 970 that the 970 is not designed to handle. (thus letting magic smoke out of the unit)

Steve said he's still going to look into it, so hopefully my reply to him will help to get him to understand exactly what I'm asking. If not, he mentioned that Scott apparently had to go out of town, but when he returns, we could defer this question to him and get his perspective on it.

Garcianc, not a problem at all. We paid alot of hard earned dollars for these units. We should know every nook and cranny of them; not just because we paid alot, but because we're supposed to be enthusiasts, too.... :p

(...and yes, my vote was in for a full re-write of that paragraph the moment I read it. It seems like it was written as a HUGE afterthought... )

E.

Since I'm also not a proponent of letting the smoke out of electronics, let's take a step back and look at what we know.

1) An IR emitter connected to the 970's IR OUT does not deliver IR commands from the 970's sensor to another device's sensor.

2) The 970's IR IN works fine with Xantech IR distribution systems like these connecting blocks.

Based on those two items alone (and reinforced by the information from Steve identifying the 970's IR input/output as a passive design), it seems that the IR ports on the back are effectively independent of the IR sensor on the front. That means that it may be possible to feed a signal into the 970's IR IN and get a copy of that signal back out at the 970's IR OUT, but it appears to not be possible to use the 970's IR sensor as a shared sensor for the entire system. The fact that Elmosaurus's test using an IR emitter connected to the 970's IR OUT failed to provide a copy of the signals received by the 970's sensor is the biggest clue.

I may have just re-stated the obvious, in which case I blame the late hour.

Your stated cases does describe most of what we've empirically seen, but it doesn't then address WTH the point of the IR output port is. One would logically think it's meant to 'relay' the signals received by the Outlaw's IR sensor on the front panel.

As we stated, it clearly doesn't do it on it's own, straight to an emitter.

It's said to do it 'passively' by Outlaw support; but what does that really mean?

I feel like calling Xantech and seeing what they have to say, but I know they'll just say, 'refer to the manufacturer of the device'. At which point, we're back at square one.

I'm beginning to wonder how and why a company that designed this unit from the ground up doesn't really KNOW how the port is supposed to be used. :p Doesn't that strike anyone else as odd? LOL.

Oh well. I'll keep digging and see what I can find...

E.

If my suspicion is correct (that the IR in/out is independent from the IR sensor), then the IR input is there to support a pass-through and potentially eliminate the need for a small connector block - an IR receiver could be connected to the 970's IR in and then an IR emitter or a simple cable could then be connected to an additional device.