...So, the journey continues.

I got a chance to speak with Steve, and Scott at Outlaw this morning. Great guys.


The firmware number:

The specifics on this are basically that because the 1070 and 970 share architecture, their firmware is 'mostly' identical. According to Scott, if I understood him correctly, the only difference in the current PRODUCTION version of the firmware (that which is shipped with all current units for sale) is that the string of text during power up differs. The 1070 firmware welcomes you, and displays 'Model 1070'. The 970 welcomes you, and displays 'Model 970'. (NB: mine does display the 970 message)

Functionally, they are written to perform the same. So the reported firmware revision number during a 'Menu+Mute' from the front panel query displays the same revision number, even though they are apparently actually different files loaded into the firmware. The only difference, as mentioned above, is the welcome string.

In the future, Scott mentioned this would be changed to be even more specific, so that revision numbers reflect the unit the welcome message was designed for. (logical)

So, the long story short, all new units have the latest PRODUCTION firmware. From what I gathered then, this is not the 'beta' that is listed on the site, as Scott mentioned that was a specific version really only meant for those that have had 'drop out' issues. It's been a short 48 hours, but I've experienced nothing like that yet, so I'm not going to concern myself for now.

It was also told to me that being that some owners still have issues, Outlaw support is STILL working on the firmware apparently. I can't give specifics, but I can make it clear that the posted 'beta' on the site is NOT the end of the refinement trail on this issue; it's still actively being pursued. I think that should help put some owners at ease.


The IR passthrough issue:

Once it was explained to me, I understood, but I can't say I like it. This is not to say that anyone is at fault; I just misunderstood what I had gotten.

The manual is VERY sparse about the IR passthrough functionality. It devotes a whole PARAGRAPH to it. Based on this, I assumed it operated like my previous electronic components that had IR passthrough. I plugged the IR emitter (1/8" mono plug) into the output port, placed the other end in front of the (now hidden) Satellite tuner's IR receiver, and presumed I was good to go. When it didn't work, I made a note of it, and was bewildered. Trying a different IR emitter didn't help. Both of these emitters were confirmed to function from my HD monitor; but that required some funny arm positioning to get the remote to be 'seen', hence the search for a better solution.

The lowdown? The unit only does what is called a 'passive' IR signal. I'd never delved that deep into IR relocation, so it was partly my ignorance on this that confounds me. In larger home theater installs, an IR processor ('brain') is used to collect and relay IR commands. This is for installs that are located in closets or the such. These systems take a small passive signal (such as that which comes out of the 970 (and 950, and 990 accoring to Steve) and adds power to it, before outputting it to the emitters. I'm GROSSLY oversimplifying what it's doing, but that's the nuts and bolts of it.

So, anyone that thinks that an emitter plugged straight into the output port will work will be disappointed like I was. You need to configure one of these IR brains in order to do a true passthrough. (it's actually a 'relay' in this case; to me, the term passthrough means 'no other signal modification is needed')

Given I need to relay/passthrough to only ONE component, I'm not sure I want to get into the whole ordeal of setting up a brain and emitter. I just plugged the emitter back into my Toshiba HD monitor, and will live with having to raise the remote above my head when changing channels. (because my display is elevated 26" off the floor, the normal IR passthrough sensor that is inside the cabinet does not get a signal through the front lens unless I elevate the source also. If the display were on the floor like it was originally designed for, this would not be an issue. And yes, a 57" 300+ lb Rear projection HD monitor is a PITA to lift onto a pedestal. LOL.)

At 48 hours, I think I can safely say I'm now into the 'out of the box' phase. (I don't count the first 48 for sonics because there's settling in the circuits, discharge of polarities in the interconnects, etc)

The sound has evened out nicely, and I've got smooth transitions throughout the entire range. Details are still a tiny tiny smidge off. I don't know if those will come through in the next few days, or if they're just lost in the system's circuits.

All in all, it's been a pleasant experience thusfar. My only real gripes have been things I've documented in this thread:

The wording in the manual should really be more descriptive of the IR passthrough specifications. Had it even mentioned the word 'passive', I'd have gone and done the research to learn about it, and not wondered for the entire weekend if I was senile, or had a defective unit on my hands.

Also, the firmware revision display should really have displayed the correct label on it. As a computer programmer/systems analyst, version control and documentation (embedded file tags in this case) is pounded into our heads from day one. It's the only thing that can save ones' butt when files get jumbled badly during releases sometimes. I really think the firmware should have been more aligned with the lineage each version was created for, from the beginning.

These two things are really minor gripes though; they do not affect the performance of the unit sonically, or fundamentally (switching, decoding, etc)

The other silly stuff like the remote not being as powerful, (keeps costs down) the display being a little hard to read (it does the job, and my slight astigmatism doesn't help) and lastly, the 'lock on' speed of the processor (not something that gets in the way of performance since typical situations will have a steady audio stream accompanying it) is REALLY REALLY nothing to be concerned with; not given what you really DO get for the excellent value of this $700 unit.

Given that, I'd rate this pre-'out of box' phase at a 4.5 out of 5.

Off to go watch Talladega Nights....

E.

It sounds like you're getting settled in pretty nicely with the 970, Elmosaurus. Thanks for the update.

*ahem*

Being the relentless fool that I am, (I told you I was stupid patient) I kept digging for lower and lower cost solutions for my IR passthrough issue.

The more I learn, the more I understand what is needed.

Enter a possible solution:

http://www.hometech.com/infrared/blocks.html#XA-CB20

(I'm in no way endorsing this company or it's products)

This looks like a nice, $14 solution (+$13 for a power supply) for passthrough as I'm trying to achieve. It's not nearly as involved as I originally thought it'd have to be.

It will take the signals that the 970 'sees' and rebroadcast them on up to two emitters.

I already have an emitter and a stereo 1/8" M-M cable, so I think this will do the trick. For $35 or so after power supply and shipping, it's worth a shot.

I'm going to check with Outlaw support on whether the power voltage is of any concern for the safety of the 970; I wouldn't want to feed power to this thing and have a bleed through that does bad things to the 970 through the IR output jack.

E.

Crap.

Well, that didn't take long.

I just started the unit, from a cold cold start, and there was nothing.

Prior to operation (attempted) just now, the unit was last used last night. The T533 played a CD (Enigma, MCMXC a.D.) last night, through the CD input (always on Analog, using Bypass) on the 970, with sleep set to 60 minutes. Both units played to end, and the 970 powered down on it's own.

Ambient temperatures for the units sat around 65 deg F all day today, with no operation at all, all day long.

I began tonight by powering up the NAD. After opening the tray, and inserting the CD, then closing it, the CD (Maroon5, Acoustic) had already started spinning up and playing track one as the 970 came online.

Once I saw the welcome message disappear, I powered on the amp.

I went to adjust the volume (I have it default to power on volume of -50db) and the knob did NOTHING. I thought, that's strange. I clicked the menu button on the front panel, to see if the front panel had died on me. The menu came up, and I clicked it again to make it go away. The CD Analog Bypass display returned, but the indicated volume had now changed. (higher, since I had turned it up a bit)

I thought this was even stranger. I then attempted to adjust the volume again via the front panel knob, but the display did not change. Pressing the volume up or down on the remote did nothing either. I then pressed the mute button on the front panel. The display changed to MUTE. I pressed again to release it, and the new indicated volume appeared.

I powered the unit off from the front panel, and then back on after a second. The situation was the same. (front panel knob adjustments did nothing to indicated display)

I powered it off again (2nd time) and back on with the remote. Because I programmed Video 1 (arbitrarily) into the remote as the power on button, it switched over to that source, and enabled Dolby Digital. With no actual input source, I just switched it back to CD, which defaults as analog bypass. STILL no sound!

I switched to DVD, which was set to Dolby Digital, (fed via digital coax from the T533 into coax 1) but there was no sound. I then pressed the Dolby mode button, but it didn't seem to respond. (trying to get it to just digital stereo mode)

I decided to power off the unit AGAIN (front panel), but waited a few seconds before powering on again. (front panel)

At this time, the DVD input which was last selected began processing audio. The mode had changed apparently due to my dolby mode button pressing, and was finally now in digital stereo. The volume (front panel) became active, and adjustments were acknowledged within a half second or so as before this incident.

I switched back to CD, and audio was coming through the analog bypass no problems.

All functionality had seemed to return at this point.

Thoughts:

This is definitely a processor boot related incident this time. I'd not think it an 'audio lock on' issue, since, the prior input that it powered up to was CD, in analog bypass mode no less, (switch on back panel is set to bypass also for bass management) so there should have been ZERO processor logic analysis at that point.

Did the lower than typical ambient temperature have anything to do with it? I don't know. It's been known that some transistor circuits don't operate when not in the right temperature range. But that's usually EXTREME ranges, like -60deg F or something insane. 'Chilled' room temperature should not be a reason for transistor processing error.

For the record, the Satellite tuner was 'off'. (but as some have noted, this unit outputs a digital audio 'dead' signal even when it's in standby mode; or at least it does on the fiber (glowing) channel; since I'm running coax, I can't be sure if it is) This coax was fed into coax 2. (but was never selected as a source during this event)

The HD Monitor was also off, but I don't see how that would influence anything since the only connection between that and the 970 is the component output wires on the 970's monitor out.

All inputs have 'auto poll' turned OFF, since I either am using a digital input only for a device, or the analog for the CD bypass input. I do not 'mix' input types on any input.

So, there you have it. My first wonderful 'no audio'.

Now that I'm unable to be foolishly optimistic that my unit is flawless, I will keep a notepad near the machine and document each and every step and it's results meticulously if this happens again.

Looks like it was a good thing I played devil's advocate and ordered that serial cable early this week 'just in case'.

It should be here later this week; if this occurs again, I'll most certainly be seeking a flash the firmware' session this coming weekend.

E.

This looks like a pretty reasonable solution, and is similar to the IR stuff that I've used with my system for several years now.

Thanks, Gonk.

I want to ask though, as I've not heard back from Outlaw support yet; did you ever connect the receiver IR output port directly to the 'receiver in' port on the Xantech unit?

From what I understand, the Xantech expects a stereo minijack (1/8"), one conductor for signal, one for ground, and one for 12V+.

What I'm trying to find out for sure, since there seems to be no specifics or details about the IR output port on the Outlaw units, is if that port is setup the same way for a stereo minijack as the Xantech, using the same conductor assignments and the incoming 12V+ charge not affecting any of the circuitry inside the Outlaw unit. (I hope that makes sense)

[eta - I just realized you posted a link to your review, and I read through it, but still didn't see for sure if you actually used the Xantech receiver, or hooked the IR Output from the Outlaw directly into the 'Receiver In' port on the Xantech. Your paragraph near the bottom seems to imply it though, since you mention, 'The Model 950 [...] has an IR receiver that you almost have to leave the room to miss...' Does this mean you did hook the IR out directly to the Xantech? If so, what type of hook-up did you use?]

E.

The only IR receiver I've used is the separate one that I have sitting on top of the TV (I set it up because the entertainment center we had just purchased at the time has doors that block many of the IR receivers on the equipment), but my Model 950 (and the Model 1070 and 970 are this way as well) worked fine with accepting signals from the Xantech distribution block (no detrimental effect on other circuitry inside the Outlaw) so I'd expect the opposite (IR out from the Outlaw to IR on on a Xantech block) to work as well.

Ok. It's good to know that the output of the Xantech talks to the IR input properly at least.

I imagine this connection was done with a 1/8" MONO minijack, correct? (same type of connector as on a typical emitter)

I just forwarded the details of what I'm trying to accomplish to Steve in Outlaw support, so hopefully we'll have an answer for the masses shortly.

E.

You are correct that the connection was done with an 1/8" mono minijack - identical to the jack on a typical emitter, and the exact same cable that can be used as a trigger cable with the 970.

I used this Xantech IR Kit kit in my sytem (boy, those prices have gone up...) and the IR out from the Outlaw pre/pro to trigger an Outlaw 7125 amp (see edit comment).
I even replaced some of the LED emitters that came with the kit with male-to-male mono minijack cables from Radio Shack for direct-wire links with my Outlaw pre/pro and satellite box. Worked flawlessly and none of my gear behaved in any way erratically.

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Edit: Instead of modifying my post, I will leave my error for all to see. I just realized that I am not using the IR out but the 12v trigger. Hmmm. So I can only attest for the IR input working flawlessly...