So, I finally did it. Ordered one. Despite everything posted on here about 'no audio', and blown tweeters/drivers, distortion, and input panel death. I even read EVERY SINGLE thread on this 970 forum (plus lots of google searching) so that I'd know what I was getting into.

Let's hope everything that's bad I've read doesn't happen. I know there's some recurring names here that feel it's going to no matter what though, just being a matter of time, etc. I'm an optimist though, (possibly to a fault in this case) so I'm hoping that it all works out.

Unlike some, I'm STUPID patient. Combine that with the fact that I'm anal retentive in general, if my unit decides to exhibit problems, and I keep it past the 30 day mark, I will document EVERYTHING in this thread. (and I mean EVERYTHING)

So if it happens to me, Outlaw support will get as much detail as possible from my setup.

The 970 will be hooked to an NAD T955. (5 X 100W; I haven't felt the need to go to 7.1 yet. Maybe someone else can convince me)

A Samsung TS160 DirecTV receiver (without the sat service) will be driving HD, digital and analog content. (OTA ASTC tuner portion, and terrestial analog cable) This will be done either over Coax, or fiber. (depends if the coax will reach; if it does not, I'll use fiber)

An NAD T533 DVD player will be driving a Coax Digital feed for all surround (movie) audio, and a bypass pair of analog feeds for L/R CD Audio. (probably through the CD input on the 970. I haven't decided for sure yet though; I may put them into the 7.1 direct bypass for the DVD... time will tell)

A Ninendo Wii will be an AUX device used for analog, DPLII input.

Power will be fed via an Adcom ACE-515 line conditioner.

All audio will be driven to a pair of B&W 601's as mains, and a Polk Audio RM6200 Center with accompanying surround satellites for HT.

If the desire/mood sets in, I'll hook a sub output wire to one channel of my spare Adcom GFA-5300 and drive a Cambridge Sonudworks Ensemble Sub. I have two of these passive sub modules, and if the mood REALLY strikes, I'll split the sub signal, and feed both into the amp and stack the subs. (not sure I want that monstrosity sitting in my living room though; it does have to pass the wife pleasing test after all...)

For Video, at this point, until I feel comfy knowing I'm not going to return it, I'm staying source direct to monitor (57" HD Toshiba CRT). If the future dictates, all three sources will be fed as component into the 970 to switch, and fed from there into the monitor.

So, the only question remaining in my mind is, when will it ship, and how long until it arrives? (I placed and paid for order this morning, and I live in North East Pennsylvania)

Cheers,
E.

Congratulations on the purchase, Elmosaurus! Since you're in the New England corner of the world, shipping should be fairly quick - I think they ship all their surround processors from the Massachusetts area.

Thanks, Gonk.

Do you recall which courier they use? I'd love if it was Fedex ground, and the thing showed up on Saturday. Highly unlikely though. (As I said, I'm stupidly optimistic)

E.

I've actually gotten some stuff from them via FedEx Home Delivery (I think my M200's came that way), so you might be in luck.

Then the only facet remaining is if they decide to gather up the wires and pre/pro, and slap labels on them today.

I praaaaaaaahbably shouldn't hold my breath on this one...

E.

- that Scott's sneaky like that, isn't he? Look forward to hearing what you think of your two new goodies (particularly the processor).

...And so, it arrived.

FINALLY.

Fedex took longer than normal for this Saturday Delivery; they're usually here before 1'ish. Perhaps it was the weather... it's been a little snowy here, but nothing like the midwest. Anyhow, I digress....

Unpacking:

The unit arrived in perfect shape. Outlaw's use of a box in a box ensured that the inner 'actual' box was in great shape. No dents, dings, or scratches. Great for the collector minded (aka, anal) types, like me.

The packs of wires however, a little bit of superfluous damage. They were packed in a bubble FedEx flat. The combined low temps possibly made the packaging bags a little brittle, so under the rigors of shipping, the side seam on one side, and the front material of the heavy duty Ziploc like bag burst. (there's a small hole in the top left corner of the clear front, and the right side heat seam blew out) I only mention it because it's the ONLY damage from shipping. Everything else was flawless. In reality, the bags are nice to have, but will probably not really get used for anything ever again anyhow.

About the wires; this is trivial, as trivial as the blown plastic ziploc above; but the colors don't quite make sense on the PCA cables. I ordered a 7x .5M set, and a 2x (pair) .5M set. One would think the 7 set would be geared towards someone driving a 7 channel amp, so you'd have matching L/R sets in red and white, (x 3) and another distinguishable color (say, grey) for the center channel. You'd also think the pair set would have a distinguishable L/R of red and white also.

Not so. I got a seemingly random mish mosh of colors. Three of the '7' pack was bundled, Red, Blue, Green. (Component video connection? ) The other four bundled also, consisted of a blue, dark brown, dark grey, and white. And then strangely, the 'pair' set was a Red, and a light grey color.

The colors of these barrels really means NOTHING at all of course. I'm just being stupid picky. But for me, part of why I chose these interconnects was for the aesthetics of it, and not having matched pairs does make it seem a little wierd. (this is the part where most people call me OCD. It's ok, I'm used to it. Feel free)

Anyhow, onto the real stuff:

An interesting point; the outer box had a label on the tape seam 'Opened for QC inspection'. The inner box's tape was also cut, but no label. (Both cuts were obviously re-sealed with a single layer of shipping tape before shipment) But yet, the inner material such as plastic bag and foam sheet wrap were all in perfect shape. Was the QC for parts count, or actual item functionality check? Just a point of curiousity...

The unit was unpacked with great care. (yes, I removed the tape from the plastic bag, and the inner foam sheet liner carefully so as not to tear it. =) Call me Capt. OCD)

I'll spare you the hookup details, and just say it's all hooked up as planned for the most part.

The few changes to my plan that I needed to make were:

- Component out to the TV, since I needed to see the menu.

- the Nintendo Wii is video switched via Component, since, the Pre/pro's component out took the input the Wii was using on the TV. The nice thing is this will give me a little test of the component switching I guess.

- Sound for the Samsung Sat Tuner is on Digital Coax; The wire did manage to reach, so no fiber needed. Input Video 2 to go along with the whole 'video 2 hardwired to DVI 2' thing, in case I want to switch via DVI or component with it at some point in the future.

- I decided the analog signal for the NAD T533 would in fact go to the CD input. In this way, I could leave CD in bypass mode all the time, and not have to worry about flipping in and out of the modes when I swapped back and forth from critical CD listening to movies.

As I fired it up, and starting spinning music and movies, I noticed the sonics were a little empty in the mid range, and perhaps a tad 'bright' up top even. I'm not going to be too harsh though, (yet) because I've always known brand new hardware to behave as such. The new interconnects as well. I've left the T533 playing on repeat with some very acoustic and dynamic CD material (Alison Krauss & Union Station, Forget about it, Rounder records) for the overnight, to get some more electrons flowing through the system. Yes, the Amp is off; the wife would kill me otherwise.

In the 5 or so hours I got to change things and get things set up (jumping input, changing channels on the Sat tuner, changing sound formats on different DVDs) everything performed properly.

I did NOT attempt to use the radio tuner. (I don't really listen to the radio; I don't think I'll even unpack the included FM or AM antennas) If I get bored, and find NOTHING wrong with the unit, I'll give it a whirl to just see if it all works... just so I can sleep at night knowing that in 3 years, if I decide to hook up the radio, and it turns out that it's dead, I knew that it at least worked when it was new. (and not DOA, where I could have done something about it, but didn't)

For now, as previously stated, I am only running 5 channel sound. I will update in the future if the .1 sub comes online, or I decide the rear back channels are REALLY worth the effort. (to me, so far, they're NOT)

Some random thoughts:

If you've read as many threads here as I did, there's a few things I wanted to note:

If you're familiar with the 'dot' days of the 950, then this might interest you; there was a SILVER dot on my box, right near the serial number. I didn't recall seeing it on the back panel of the unit though. I'm curious to know what that means. Anyone know? (Only actual firsthand knowledge please, no guesses)

The volume knob is NOT wobbly. Or at least, mine is not. It turns with defined 'medium soft' detents, and does not feel loose. The system does NOT recognize it instantly ON THE DISPLAY though; (it does adjust the actual attentuation) it seems as though the processor waits a half a second before computing the change in volume and displaying the change on the front panel. Perhaps this is where some got the impression that the unit was 'slow. It's not a huge deal, since how often do we really use the front panel volume knob? (I personally think a medium size -20db mute button on the front would be adequate, since the only time I've ever reached for a front panel knob was when I was preparing to change a disc or something, and someone started talking to me, so I knocked the volume all the way down just to hear them, then turned it back up to the level I was at previously)

Along the lines of speed, the Processor DOES take 1-2.5 seconds to lock onto a digital audio stream and changes modes. This doesn't bother me much, or at least, I don't expect it to. Time will tell, and if my mind changes, I'll be sure to note that here in this thread.

The rest of the physical build quality is excellent. I for one enjoy the NAD minimalistic look, and curved corners of the front panel. I do think the silver accents are too bright; I'd have prefered the buttons and knobs in a slightly more subdued medium gray or a straight pitch black. The bright silver makes it seem like the device can't decide if it wants to be a flashy 'modern' unit, or a classic NAD minimalist.

The screen IS indeed 'somewhat' hard to read at 15 foot typical viewing distances. But that's a subjective gripe, since my eyesight isn't as good in low light. (the lighting level typical to these unit's operation) I think the blue electro flouresence is what makes it hard, since blue has one of the worst contrast ratios against a black background. Bright green may be common, but its for a few reasons, and legibility is high on that list.

The remote... well, it's included. LOL. I don't expect a lot from a remote nowadays, so, if it works, I won't usually complain. But I also won't glowingly praise it either. This one works. The problem is, it's the 'punch in the code' type. This was probably for cost savings. I can accept that. My problem (and possibly yours) is, it feels like Outlaw took a premade 'punch in the code' type remote, and added their base codes for the Pre/Pro to it. This would seem ideal, except that for the target audience, we audiophiles don't usually have the more mainstream manufacturers' DVD players. Or Satellite receivers. Or cable converters. Etc. In my case, I'm on the low side. It knew a code for my TV. That's it. Nothing else. No DVD player. No Satellite tuner. (despite an entry for Samsung, there was no response from the unit when the remote sent commands out) If you have other high end gear, download the manual and you'll see what I mean if you have an audiophile level DVD player, CD transport, etc. Luckily, I still have my trusty NAD HTR-2 remote from my previous A/V receiver. (which died right on the edge of the warranty. NAD is being kind with the customer service though; the problem is I don't trust their units anymore, so I'll probably trade the replacement in for something else) This NAD remote unit fulfills the duty with aplomb! (I love this thing. I Swear. ) I taught all the commands from the Outlaw remote for the Pre/Pro into it in under 5 minutes, and now, they ALL work, perfectly. No hunting for codes, and no missing command functionality. I'm back to a single remote on the coffee table. (yay! )

And now, the bad...

There were TWO things I found that were not what I expected.

1 - this may be normal; I'll call tech support Monday AM, or hopefully get an answer here during the weekend from someone that knows FOR SURE. (no guesses, please) I checked the firmware just 'to know', and the number does NOT match the number offered on the FAQ/Support page on the OutlawAudio.com site. Worse yet, it is lead off by a 1070..., which, I've read at least one other in this forum had discovered on their unit. (I think his was a B stock though, so he thought perhaps it was flashed improperly by a previous owner)

Since mine was a New stock, (or better have been, since that's what I ordered) I'm curious why this displays this. Since the 1070 and 970 share lineage, if Outlaw support says that's normal, then I'd not worry too much. If I flash the new firmware, and it changes though, something will definitely not add up. I would personally think that the number should lead with a 970; I may flash the firmware, or do a reset at the least, because of number two....

2 - The IR passthrough doesn't work. ARGH. I NEED this functionality, because my rack will not hold the Sat tuner anymore. (the unit is an inch too tall; but that's fine, since I'd rather have the extra 3" breathing room for the main audio gear, and to get that noisy, always on, heat generating tuner away from my main 'stack') I tried two different like new IR emitter's that I confirmed to work using the passthrough output of another device in another room. It's NOT the emitters. I will be calling support first thing Monday morning about this. I REALLY hope it does not require a unit swap. That will peeve me off. Big time.


If anyone has any thoughts, or has any questions, feel free to fire away. I'll check this regularly throughout the day tomorrow.

E.

ACtually, that sounds pretty close to the THX standard for 7.1 analog connections. The THX standard is red for the right channel, white for left, green for center, purple for subwoofer, silver for right surround, blue for left surround, yellow for right surround back, and brown for left surround back.
That is exactly what happened, and short of doing it with a learning-capable remote (such as the Model 950's SL-9000) it's about all that a company the size of Outlaw can do - designing their own remote would be pricey. On the bright side, they went to UEI for the remote, and UEI's remote code database is one of the biggest around. No remote code database is perfect, of course, but there are some codes that will with with the remote that aren't in the manual - check out HiFi Remote for more codes. I can't guarantee that you'll find codes that work for you, but it's worth a try.

It's entirely possible (in fact quite likely) that your 970 was shipped from the factory with older firmware - 990's were shipping this way for some time, and may still be. It could even simply be a different firmware number for some other reason (I've seen that some with OPPO's DVD players, for example). They may also have not installed a beta firmware. If you call them Monday about the IR, they can give you the scoop on that as well.

This very well may be; I've never bought THX dedicated wiring, so this may be an issue of ignorance on my part. If this was the goal though, given you described the more traditional colors that are used for THX, it would have been nice for them to line up that way, then. Either way, this is really REALLY trivial (even I'm willing to admit it) so it's nothing of concern that requires correction; it's just something I wanted others to be aware of so they weren't surprised like I was.

Thanks, Gonk. I'll have to give that a whirl and see what I come up with. At this point, I have the functionality I need from the HTR-2, so it's not a huge loss to me. And in point, I really don't hold Outlaw at fault; it's like you describe, for the size of their organization, and the price point targeted, it'd be impossible to do a true learning remote. As I said, it 'works'. I don't hold it to any fault. I just can't praise it either.

That's what I'd like to know for sure. If the need arises, I'll go buy a serial cable and dust off and hook up my ancient Thinkpad to the unit to flash the firmware. I just want to know for sure before I go and do it, since a few people have exhibited 'worse AFTER the flash' experiences according to thread posts here in the forum.

After the all night spinning, and a few hours of near reference level play (-13db or so), I'm pleased to say the sonics are beginning to shape out. I'm getting midrange transitions and miniscule details back. I'm still missing some mid-low transitions, making it seem like piano and string bass notes 'appear' and then consequently 'disappear' without much reverb fade. (not pronounced synthetic reverb, but that which naturally resonates off a vibrating string/cable that you'd hear) I expect it to round out shortly as well, so I'll post when that happens. (or if it does not)

Still perplexed why IR passthrough is dead. It seems like such a simple thing to implement.

Still welcoming anyone's thoughts.

E.