Hi Folks,

I realize that this forum consists of mostly Outlaw users. I'm still researching a product to replace my old Denon AVR-3300. I've need considering the 970/7075 combo but I also ran across this Adcom GFR-700 which looks interesting. And while I'm at it I've also been considering the new Cambridge 640R and the Belles Soloist 3 series. The last of course is a two channel system but has a home theater bybass.
Can anyone chime in and give their thoughts? Been to acouple hi end audio shops around and have been told that a great two channel system can sound just as good on movies.

Thanks in advance.

The GFR-700 looks to be a fairly new product from Adcom (this is the first I've heard of it, in fact). For the price ($2000 list), I'd suspect that the 990/7125 combo ($1900) would likely beat it on sound quality, would give you two more channels of amplification (the GFR-700 only has five channels of internal amplification), and would offer very comparable features. The 970/7075 combo wouldn't offer as much power (although it would have those two extra channels) and probably doesn't have DAC's that are as good, but it's also about $700 less.

The GFR-700 does include "HDMI" support, but I say "HDMI" because it seems to be purely video switching, like the 970 and 990's DVI switching. As far as I can tell, the HDMI inputs don't support audio except to pass the audio signals out to the display device, and even then it's only HDMI v1.0 (PCM stereo). It does look like the GFR-700 may transcode and scale 480i sources to HD resolution (doesn't appear that scaling works with 480p or higher sources, although transcoding may), which is a nice touch.

Two channel gear can certainly do a good job, but for movies with active soundtracks you will not get the full impact of surround. You also will have to jump through a few more hoops to integrate a subwoofer in most cases, although a few stereo units (like the RR2150) do offer subwoofer outputs. If you're already used to surround, you may find yourself really missing it.

I sold my GTP 740 and got the 970. The Adcom 740 was notorious for problems from the start so I was glad to get $250 for it. They may have improved their Preamp Tuners but I wasn't going to take a chance on them especially for the price. It looks as though Adcom has gotten their act together with a new website and some new "receivers" that will hopefully work out well for them. What's ironic is that I have an original brochure from around 1985 with a headline that reads "The End of the Receiver".
Looks like they've given up on that idea 20 years later. It doesn't seem like their Preamp tuners were very popular. If I didn't get the Outlaw, I possibly would have gotten a Rotel. Again though, it was twice the price.

I've owned a lot of Adcom products over the years and can attest to their reliability and performance for the dollar. However, I do not have first-hand experience with the GFR-700. Coincidentally, someone posted a review of the GFR-700 on audioreview.com just yesterday who considered a 970/7125 combo; you may want to give it a look: http://www.audioreview.com/adcom/PRD_347400_2718crx.aspx

As to the argument that you can get great movie performance on a two-channel set up, I have read similar claims in the past, but I don't see how that's possible, especially when considering the nature of discrete 5.1 soundtracks. As gonk noted, I think you'll really miss out on the whole fun factor.

If I may offer a counter argument, I think you can achieve great two-channel performance with the 970. For starters, you have the flexibility of separates. Second, with the pre/pro in bypass mode, you get a nice, unadulterated signal path. You also have the option of running a sub in bypass mode with a simple 80Hz analog crossover. From what I have experienced, thre is no noticeable degradation to the signal.

As a 2-channel devotee, the 970 really has given me the best of both worlds: surprising stereo performance (and flexibility) and excellent home theater performance.

Thanks for the comments guys. I have been doing lots of research and reading and listening. Unfortunately, I have not yet been able to audition any Outlaw models but am currently auditioning an on-loan Rega Mira 3 from a locan Hi Fi shop. I spent a few hours this evening with my wife listening to various music like jazz great Ray Brown, Chicago Sym playing Gershwin, Sarah Vaughn, Jaco Pastorious and some Sting. We both felt that the Denon lacked some of the natural qaulities in sound that the Rega offered. It was just a sonically purer sound. I put the Denon in Direct mode and listened via the Denon 1650AZ w/regular RCA plugs as the Mira 3 of course does not have digital inputs.
I spent alot of time at the shop also listening to the Belles Soloist 3 setup from the folks at Power Modules and it is just fantastic. I'll be auditioning that one at home tomorrow evening. My plan tomorrow during the day is to audition several movie scenes using the Mira 3 in 2 channel mode and w/ the addition of the processor of the Denon and to run the center. More on that. Im still considering having an Outlaw component sent to me too.

Btw, have any of you heard any speaker models from Usher yet? Absolute bargain for the bucks!

Take care
Pete

It sounds like your priorities (as are mine) are music first, HT 2nd. Some have mentioned that two channel is not as good as multichannel for HT and I agree. However, Linkage mentioned that he was interested in the Belles because of the HT bypass.

For those who might not know, this allows you to use your front two channels from a stand alone two channel system and use them for your HT as well. You get the best of both worlds.

Out of those you mentioned the Belles are in a different league from the rest IMO. I have heard the Belles Soloist-3 with a Belles 350A, Naim CD5 and Usher speakers and it was awesome. The Belles have a true to life sound that is hard to match at any price.

To me the Soloist-3 is a no brainer, but I'm not sure I'd go with the Soloist amps. You can get a used Belles 150A hot rod for about the same price as a new Soloist, or a Odyssey Stratos even. I owned the Outlaw Model-755 and in it's price range it has no peer IMO, but it's not a Belles either.

I have the Belles 350A Reference and an Arcam AVP-700 pre-processor which I use in by-pass mode for music. This processor is known for its musical abilities, but it doesn't come close to the baby Belles. I'm going to get either the Soloist-3 or the Belles 21A.

It looks like your upgrade path almost mirrors mine. I recently bought a pair of Usher CP-6381's and they are superb. I was using Energy Veritas 2.3is' and to my ears the Ushers have a more clear and detalied midrange and and better bass extension.

However, I'm not at all sure I like these better, as the Energy's are just a really nice all around performer as well and excell with dynamic capabilities the ushers cant match.

For HT the value of Outlaw is hard to deny, especially their amps. However, I've owned many Adcom components over the years and am a fan of their equipment as well. Tough call.

Feel free to email me if you would like to discuss further.

Hi Jack,

I will completely agree with you on the Belles product. I am currently auditioning the Belles Soloist 3 setup and it is fantastic sounding. Makes my Audio Pros sound like they never have and never knew they could. I am still really leaning towards the Ushers however. I am going to stay in the X-719 or V 602 range. Been listening to them all at a new Hi Fi shop just across the street from me. The V602's just came in today and I was extremely pleased with their performance, a bit tight out of the box but the potential after break in seems promising. They have some 601's broken in nicely and they are so deceiving for the cost. Easily as good as some twice their price of $700 and &1000 for the 602's. I listened to one of the CP series hooked up to the Belles and it was breath taking really. Incidently I they also let me take home a Rega Mira 3 int amp last night to try and it too was an improvement over the Denon but not nearly as much as the Belles has been today. I think this may be my last stop but not final yet.
Could you perhaps explain to me how this bypass works actually. I could hold onto the Denon for a bit and use it for that purpose until I replac eit with a newer processor but am not exactly sure how to hook it up! I will ask tomorrow at the shop too but I spent the better part of this evening trying and it got frustrating. I plugged into the multi channel output on the Denon and then into most on the Belles but nothing. Im sure Im doing something wrong. : (
Any help greatly appreciated. If you'd like to do it over email that'd be fine too.

Happy Holidays!

In a lot of cases, the stereo bypass serves as an extra input on the stereo unit. That input bypasses the stereo pre-amp's volume control. You would connect the surround receiver or processor's left and right pre-amp outputs to the bypass inputs on the two-channel unit. When you select the bypass input, the stereo's volume control is skipped and you operate the surround receiver.

Gonk,

You were dead on! I feel like an idiot as I was trying to run out of the multi sources and or the ext in plugs. Finally after staring at my old trusty Denon manual I found the "pre-out" jacks. Ran the fronts out to the Belles pre amp and we were in business! Honestly dealing with a product like the Belles as the main power source to the fronts there is just no comparison. The Rega Mira 3 just was not enough of a difference while it still was better no doubt.
So I am a proud new owner of the following:
Belles Soloist 3 : http://www.powermodules.com/soloist.html
Usher V-602's : http://www.usheraudiousa.com/products/loudspeakers/v-series/v-602

I gave the Outlaw combo some serious consideration while doing the research but settled this way.

Next to come will most likely be and updated surround processor(970 maybe) and a new center channel as I am selling of the Audio Pro set up I believe.

Thanks to you folks who chimmed in with input and advice.

Happy Holidays!
Pete