unl1983, that response sounds very familiar.

I have had 5 no-audio incidents in the last 3 days. Considering that there is still beta firmware out there since May, I can't help but feel like all Outlaw 970 owners are nothing but beta testers. Before anybody says "woah, not me" and that they don't have the no-audio problem, qualify that with "today", because tomorrow when you change something, you may be one of us.

Who knows if the no-audio issue is something that can be resolved via a firmware update (I hope so). I can't help but fear that one of these days the no-audio issue may become a permanent condition and I would become the proud owner of a black plastic brick.

I get the no audio problem at least 50% of the time when I turn on the pre amp. I have installed the beta firmware and restored to factory settings as well. It's really a joke that its taking them this long to get it fixed. I mean the last update was in May and its almost November. What takes so long???

Typically I'm powering it up with a DirecTV R15 DVR unit via optical digital output, but it also happens when I power up with the Xbox 360 as well. I've even tried powering up with the radio tuner and it is sitll plagued by the no audio problem. The only solution thus far has been to walk up to the unit and turn it off, wait a few seconds, and then turn it back on.

If they can't get it to work properly, then they need to make some sort of recall on the units and replace it with something that does work.

In all fairness to Outlaw Audio, the no-audio issue has plagged other manufacturers like Lexicon and yes, even Sunfire. However, that was generations of their products ago. Lexicon has a 3-year manufacturer's warranty, and Sunfire has an impressive support program. For instance, the Sunfire Theatre Grand II suffered from "audio drop outs", as they called them, years ago which I believe were fixed by a hardware upgrade (eeprom chip). The TG3s were fixed via firmware upgrade and Sunfire went as far as offering "hardware upgrades" to turn TG3s into essentially TG4s in a TG3 box. Sunfire is now in generation 5 of that platform and yet, if you are a TG1, 2, 3 or 4 owner, you can still trade yours in for a TG5... Sometimes paying more is cheaper...

I don't mean to tell Outlaw Audio how to run their business but, despite my rantings, I think the 970 and 990 are priced way too low for what they offer. They could each stand a $200 price hike (sorry everyone). Now let's say Outlaw offered a trade-up to a 990 from a 970 for a $400 credit, most of us would seriously think about it. If you consider that you just hiked the price by a combined $400, you are still making the same profit as before AND keeping your customers loyal. As a customer, even if you know that you are really paying for a deposit on your trade-up value, don't you think that's a fair price for a trade-up guarantee?

I don't mean to put you on the spot but can you give examples as to why you feel, at least for the 970, it could be priced $200 higher?

Thanks.

The 970 and 990 would probably still sell with a $200 higher price, but Outlaw has gotten where they are by being fairly aggressive on their pricing. The Model 950 was $900 when it came out (and fell to $800 and eventually even $700 before being discontinued), even though clones of it were selling through dealer networks with MSRP's of $1500+. Raising their prices might help some buyers perceive a higher value, but the prices they are at have led to many people who wouldn't otherwise have gotten into separates (or who would have used receivers as pre/pros) to take the plunge.

Outlaw hasn't pursued trade-in programs in the past. Instead, one point that they've made in the past is that their equipment holds its value well on the used market (thanks to the transferrable warranty, reputation, and at least in part to the original pricing). If you bought a Model 950 in 2003 for $800 or $900, you could have sold it on Audiogon in 2005 for $500+ and only had to pull $600 or so out of your pocket to buy a new 990.

Gonk, I'm not sure if you were replying to my post but I'm more interested in what features/hardware the 970 has that might make it worth $200 more.

I was replying to garcianc2003's post, actually. I can't identify any specific features or components that would be a justification for a higher price. For the 990, one might be able to make the case that adding the DVI switching and balanced outputs would justify a higher price than the P-965 on which it was built, even though the 990's price is $400 less than the 965's list price, but it's that $400 savings that has helped the 990 sell as many units as it has - raising the price would probably cost Outlaw some sales.

iardon, my $200 is just a SWAG to illustrate a point based on lately contemplating replacing my 970 with a Sunfire TG5 (around $3K) or an Aragon Stage One (also around $3K). They both have more features than the 970, but I think the 970 would still be an attractive alternative at just under $1K and the 990 at $1.5K.

One strategy could be to repackage both of those units under a different product line for sale at brick-and-mortar high-end stores (not Circuit City please) where they could go head to head with the pricier competition. That would have the advantage of sparing the internet customers from the new pricing scheme and offering their product to a whole new audience of discerning consumers who don't necessarily know or want to buy direct online. If you want to be a giant killer, you do need to run into giants every now and then.

Why do I feel like Robert Cringely all of a sudden?

I should add that I DO NOT want to pay more. I just think that the difference in price should not be attributed to the ownership experience or quality of the product.

Had another episode recently with the no audio problem...

While watching TV, the dreaded feedback noise struck my left speaker. Fortunately, the volume was down and I powered off quickly, so no damage was done (as happened with my right speaker a few weeks ago.)

I love the 970, but this is getting old. If this happens again and I blow another driver, I may consider another SSP.