Hi. First post. Just bought an SMS-1 from you guys and looking forward to it. I have a couple questions about its use in my system (s)...but first a background. I am a veteran HT and audiophile guy who has had a dedicated home theater since 1987 (15.25 x 22.9 x 10; Runco 110" HD, ceiling mounted pj, etc.)but has been a goofball when it comes to measuring and/or obtaining a decent bass response in it. Although I used ASC's Arnie Noxon's help when we built the house and room (ASC tube traps on coffered portion of ceiling, etc.) it's only in the past year that I've become serious about getting the room response settled down. I have RealTrap bass traps in the corners and on the back wall, and they've helped smooth the room out quite a bit, but that's a subjective/qualitative opinion..no measurements. Haven't spent the time and not sure I would do it right...hence the SMS-1 purchase.

I use the room for three separate uses:
A) dedicated 2 channel listening about 40-50% of the time (VMPS RM/X's, Modwright tubed stereo preamp with HT bypass, Modwright tubed modded redbook/SACD, etc.). I've invested in diffuser drapes and Roomlenses to help the soundstage and imaging, especially with a large screen in the middle of the front wall. Although the big RM/X's go down quite a ways, I have used subs (pair of Sunfire Truesubs) to augment their bass via a second set of stereo outs from the pre. I'd like to do that going forward I think (just bought VMPS Largers to replace Sunfires).
B) 5.1 hirez (DVD-A, SACD) multichannel music with all VMPS in the five ITU positions (surrounds are a bit outside of 120 degrees but who's counting); I want good bass response in this scenario, which is typically bass-light due to hirez universal player bass mgmt issues. My universal player has a 80 hz crossover (analog in). This setup is used 35% of time and, like c below, uses the clean HT bypass function of the stereo tubed pre to feed the front RM/X's.
C) 7.1 movie playback. In this scenario the system goes through a Denon 4806 with Audyssey Room EQ, and uses dipole surrounds on the sides and rears. LFE will be sent to the sub(s) as well as redirected bass from any "small" set speaker configs. (Note: Currently I have the subs connected to the Denon, but that means they aren't augmenting the RM/X's in 2 channel mode. This is planned to change with the SMS setup)

OK, so...that's it. I'm planning on sending the second set of stereo preamp outputs to the SMS-1 as well as the sub out (LFE from movies, below 80hz from mch music) from the Denon 4806. These will be summed and sent to at least two VMPS Larger subs (driven by Crown K2). The way I see it I have full-range stereo signal going to the SMS, as well as either LFE/redirected or 80hz/redirected bass. Argh.

Help!

My first goal is flat EQ'd room response for 2 channel listening, then mch listening. The movie stuff is great, but I don't really care cuz LFE is 120hz and below anyway and typically a more-is-better approach is ok with me. Sooooooo, I have this dilemna. I don't want the Audyssey Room EQ (which is only engaged when watching movies; mch music is in "bypass" mode with Denon; stereo listening doesn't even use the Denon) to override or muss up the SMS-1 EQ Do you think I ought to simply set up the SMS-1 cabling, put it in bypass mode initially, then Room EQ the room with the Denon Audyssey (like it is today)...then deal with the SMS-1 and stereo setup only? That way the room is smooth for 2 channel...what do I do when I introduce an 80HZ crossover coming from the universal player for mch hirez music? I'm not even sure of the questions to ask yet?
Thanks,
Ted B

In thinking it over some more (shower time) it may make most sense to do the SMS-1 first, then once the levels, etc are set simply unplug the front inputs from the SMS (so the Audyssey isn't confused as to what exactly is my sub) and let Audyssey do its thing. It can't really override my SMS-1 EQ's so I may be worried about nothing. I'm still wondering what the mch stuff will do, though.

I haven't had a chance to fully mull this over, but if you plan to use the SMS-1 in some cases and the Audyssey in other cases, the best bet is to put the SMS-1 in the signal path and leave it there, but to change it to preset 6 when running the Audyssey setup and when using the Audyssey EQ. Preset 6 is a "bypass" mode for the SMS-1, and as such applies no EQ to the subwoofer signal. You'll want to disable the crossover on the SMS-1 before you do any setup anyway.

Gonk,
I respect your opinion and remarks on the SMS-1. It's the preset 6 conclusion that I'm coming to, too, unfortunately (really wanted to have movie bass EQ'd by SMS, and Audyssey to simply pick the right crossovers, etc). I see you agree so I'll likely do that. It's really not that I ever want to leave the SMS-1 out of the equation, I just dont want to have Audyssey and SMS trip over each other.

However, more basic issue....its probably obvious once I get the product but why do I want to "disable the crossover on the SMS-1 before you do any setup anyway".? I need the SMS to be my crossover for my stereo setup cuz my front speakers are running full-range.

Well, another thought is this: use the SMS-1 to EQ the low frequency all the time, then run the Audyssey to EQ the upper frequencies (knowing that the low frequency is already EQ'd flat).

As for the crossover, it looks like I really hadn't mulled it over enough yet. I do see a good reason for you to use the SMS-1's bass management now - are you going to set the mains to "large" in the Denon so that the mains only have bass management applied at the SMS-1?

Yes, mains will be set to large, in both Audyssey and hirez DVD BM. Here's what I'm thinking:
*2 channel (call it preset 1)
Normal SMS-1 EQ with crossover set around 40-50hz (normal rolloff of my mains)

* hirez multichannel (call it preset 2)
Since DVD player will have 80 hz fixed xover, setup EQ manually for 80hz crossover, taming the likely boosts and issues that such a high xover will produce, etc. Then turn off xover, leaving EQ,and set it as preset 2 (or whatever).

* movies, etc using Denon 4806 Audyssey EQ'd sound (preset 6; bypass mode) Reason here is I'm not sure I can ask Audyssey to EQ upper FR only, so I'll just let Audyssey do its thing. It'll be fine...it's only for DTS and Dolby Dig sources anyway.

Thoughts?

Final question of the night: I mentioned I'd send preamp's second set of stereo outs to SMS's l/r inputs, AND send Denon's sub out to LFE in. Now realize that the SMS "LFE in" is an XLR connection. question: since it will all be summed mono anyway, should I just y-connector my stereo preamp outputs to the SMS-1 thereby taking up only the left input, and then use the Denon's sub out for the right one? OR...connect the l/r normally then go buy an XLR-to-RCA cable and connect the Denon sub out to the XLR LFE in?

Thanks for all the help so far
Ted

Definitely looking to be an interesting setup. So...

Set up the SMS-1 using an 80Hz crossover so that you have the sub response flattened up to 80Hz (the upper limit that it's likely to be dealing with). Then go through and adjust the presets.

Preset 1: SMS-1 crossover set to somewhere around 50Hz and probably 24dB slope, no contour applied, used for two-channel with the stereo pre-amp (using the second set of outputs from the stereo pre-amp, with the first set going to the amp and on to the mains).

Preset 2: SMS-1 crossover set to 80Hz and probably 24db slope, no contour applied, used for high-res audio (DVD-Audio/SACD).

Preset 6: SMS-1 bypassed entirely, Denon 4806 doing its own thing for DD and DTS sources. The only thing I might suggest would be leaving the SMS-1 in the loop and (after calibration) run the Audyssey. True, you wouldn't be able to tell the Audyssey to limit itself to above 80Hz, but it's going to be listening to its test tones through the SMS-1 and therefore should see no need to adjust anything in the SMS-1's realm once you've dialed it in. It'd be easy to test, at least: run the Audyssey setup with the SMS-1 on preset 4 (the default preset, which has no contour applied) and on preset 6 to see if preset 4 gives it any trouble.

As for the final question, I'd probably lean toward your first approach (summing the pre-amp outputs into a single connection and then letting the SMS-1 sum that in with the Denon's LFE output). I think the SMS-1's unbalanced and balanced inputs and outputs are shared (I did test that the balanced input reaches the unbalanced output, at least), which would let the second approach work, but I'm not certain of it.

So I take it that your telling me to setup the EQ using 80hz because it'll work for 40-50hz too. Also though, are you inferring that each preset doesn't have different EQ points, just possibly different crossovers, etc. The reason is that if I EQ for 80hz and use a bunch of EQ points for the area 40-80 could it theoretically not be as good for my stereo setup as setting up a separate 40hz EQ with all the EQ points at my disposal?

Ted

Yeah, I'd probably set up the EQ using 80Hz and let that work just as well for 50Hz. You can adjust all eight EQ's independently for each of the five presets (preset 6 is a bypass, so there's no adjusting it), but you can also just adjust the global (setup) preset and it'll apply to all five presets. Unless you have a case that needs the extra EQ channels below 50Hz, I'd probably adjust the EQ's once with the 80Hz crossover and use those settings all the time, but if you do have a use for the extra EQ channels below 50Hz then you certainly can adjust the EQ's separately for preset 1 and preset 2. Even in that case, though, I'd probably start with the "SETUP" preset and the 80Hz crossover (so that all five presets are optimized for 80Hz) and then do preset 1 with 50Hz.

Got it. Thanks! Wow, in one day and eight posts I feel like I've learned as much as a month of blind useage would have gotten me. Ain't the internet great!! Seriously, thanks a lot.

Now just wait until I get the damn thing...:>)

- it's a surprisingly complex beastie for as small as it is. I suspect you'll have plenty of fun with it once it's in your hands.

I'm still thinking that I'll need to unplug the stereo inputs during the Audyssey sweep test cuz as it tests the fronts the subs will come on should the subs be connected to the stereo preamp. And although it will think the mains are very deep, it will trya nd do a time alignment and possibly implode (assuming sub isn't in same time plane as mains). I will, however, try your idea to have the sub(s) EQ'd and the SMS in the path so when the Audyssey sub/lfe channel test comes up it hears an EQ'd signal.