I did get a bit confused yesterday afternoon -- had a reply "in progress" for a while, then after I posted it found that the thread had continued in the interim. At first I thought that it had moved off in a completely different direction (the consult with the guy at Rutledge, ...). After I replied again, I realized that the situation hadn't really changed any and my 3:06 post was actually still on topic. Let's see if I can untangle my reasoning a bit before I dash off to a pre-bid meeting.

If the decision were Bose AM6 or Onkyo SKS-HT500, I'd recommend the Onkyo in a heartbeat -- half the money, and a fundamentally better design approach (1" tweeters and either 4" or 5-1/4" woofers in the satellites plus a powered sub with an 8" cone is simply a more traditional and better approach to sound reproduction than Bose's 2-1/4" paper cones and their passive bass module). Plus they actually just specs for frequency response, even if I do question the 35kHz upper limit (the human ear generally can't hear above 20kHz, and very few speakers at any price range claim much frequency response above 20-22kHz). You get what you pay for, of course, so it is likely that build quality will be a bit on the cheap side. Going with something like the Rudledge speakers or a better speaker brand like Paradigm or Boston Acoustics will get you better sound, but we also have to keep a few other things in mind. First, with an all-in-one receiver and DVD player like the JVC, we are relying on a fairly entry-level front end to drive these things. This does make a difference. In all likelihood pairing the JVC up with something like Paradigm Reference or B&W speakers would leave the speakers limited by the receiver. With the budget you currently have available, you are left with two options, as you have already figured out. (1) Go with the Onkyo right now, with will likely give about the best bang for your buck for surround sound right now, or (2) go with a pair of better speakers now and deny yourself surround sound for a while until you can budget money for more speakers. If you have any old speakers lying around, you could press them into service as surrounds and live without a center and sub for a while. The center can be approximated by the two better front speakers you would buy (it's often referred to as a "phantom" center, and some people even prefer this arrangement). The lack of a sub would mean the lowest couple of octaves would be left out of your movies. If you don't have any speakers around now that could be used for surround, the question really boils down to whether or not you want to wait to enjoy surround and whether or not you think you'll be in a position to ever go back and buy more speakers. If you bought the JVC in order to enjoy watching movies in surround sound, you may (understandably) not want to end up with just two speakers, no matter how good they are. Charlie summed it up pretty well yesterday:



The Onkyo's are probably the least expensive surround speaker package (short of buying one of the 5.1 computer speaker packages) that you will likely find. You could hang onto the box(es), and if you decided to invest in better gear later you could go to eBay and sell the Onkyos -- and probably recoup a fair percent of your original investment in the process.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

[This message has been edited by gonk (edited March 20, 2003).]

I'd steer clear of the Onkyo speakers. Onkyo is a good brand, but only for its electronics. In general (though not always) electronics manufacturers tend to make crummy speakers and speaker manufactuers tend to make crummy electronics. It's a question of specialization.

That being the case, I'd really recommend avoiding the Onkyo speakers and definitely the Bose. I'd stick to the brands we discussed: the RAD, the Paradigm, PSB, Energy, and the like.

Of course, it's your money, and it's up to you how you spend it, but you're asking us and we're telling ya.

As for whether good stereo is better than bad surround, I say yes in a heartbeat. What do you think is more involving: really good sound and music coming from in front of you or really bad sound and music coming from all around you?

Seriously, with good stereo speakers, you also can get a very full sound, especially if you take the time to position them correctly.

Jeff

Personally if I had $300-400 in budget I'd listen to the Onkyo vs. whatever better brands are convenient, then think about the following:

• Do I notice a lot of improvement?
• Am I likely to be unhappy with the Onkyo system soon?
• If so, how long can I live with them?
• Will my financial situation allow me to walk away from the Onkyo system at some future time without feeling too much pain?

IMO buying the Onkyo system might not be a bad move, and here's why; If you're not even sure what you want or like perhaps it's too early in the game to make a large financial commitment. In entering many hobbies/pastimes it is often a good idea to buy something cheap (but not too horrible) to get a feel for what your personal tastes are before making large choices.

Would you rather sell this cheap surround system later on eBay and lose $150 or try to sell a set of 'better' speakers you decided don't fit your taste?

In the end you pay your $$$ and make your choice, and both paths have merit. If you do want to go with 'better' speakers, maybe you might look at something quite small and inexpensive from a brand that has a set of larger monitors you like. That way, your upgrade path is clear - move your first set to surround duty and get the larger mains at upgrade time.

Stretching your budget in an area where you have little experience can be a source of dissatisfaction later.

As always, YMMV, IMO, etc.

Door number one; no # two; no # one. I just read a comment on www.ecoustics.com which stated it clearly.

"I have an ONKYO SR600 receiver and the SKS-HT500 speakers. While they do a great job for movies they are just not good enough for music. I am worried that my choices may have to take into account that the Onkyo speakers are quite inefficient around 86db. I Like the Klipsch RF3II's, but am told they are too efficient for the other speakers and will drown them out. Any ideas?"

Now this person had a more high-end amplifier also. So his is probably more capable of handling the better speakers. As Gonk said above, "We are relying on a fairly entry-level front end to drive these things. This does make a difference."

So am I really trying to get ahead by starting behind? Or by getting ahead of the curve with quality stereo speakers will I remain behind because of the mediocre driver?

I kind of like the idea of hearing good music AND movies but I probably watch more TV than I should. So forgoing the movies to hear the music is a tough call.

As a matter of course, you folks have really had great impact on the decision making. It's too bad I'm such an invertebrate. I want my cake and not a lemon cake.

Gonk is right regarding the receiver, but ITOH the speakers will make orders of magnitude more difference. As a data point, picking a high dollar amp from a decent receiver in a double blind test has proven problematic for even the most golden eared listeners, while almost anyone can distinguish between even fairly good speakers without too much trouble.

Many receivers offer gain compensation on the various channels to allow balancing of more sensitive or proximate speakers to less sensitive speakers. And, a sensitive speaker will squeeze the most volume (obviously) from a low powered amp. Be aware that it might also highlight issues that a less sensitive speaker might mask.

Konrad,

By all means, take your time. It's your system, and you're going to be the one who has to pay for it and you're going to be the one who has to listen to it. You're perfectly justified in taking your time in making the decision.

But just remember, buying a piece of garbage on sale doesn't make it a bargain. No matter what you spend, make sure that you're going to be happy with what you get, or else it's no bargain at any price.

Take care,

Jeff

Konrad,
Jeff is right on.

You say you have your system already purchased and unopened. If you got it at Circuit City, you can return it within 30 days, if I'm not mistaken. Set it up and see if you like it. If not take it back.

All the points everyone has made on this thread are valid. But, you may just find that this system works fine for you.

Ron

And the ideas just keep on coming. Yes, I have reviewed all you comments and - as a Gemini - listened well.

What I haven't told you is the complete personal side of the story. In January, 2002, my house burned down. The purchase was forced by insurance requirements and constraints. As of this date, I have yet to move back into the house so I can't even listen to the system I purchased. I'm guessing on another month before move-in and even then I will hardly have time to eat, sleep, and work, so setting up the audio might be slower than desired.

Given my wife's deaf ear and my need for audio-visual stimulation, I am doing just what you all suggested. I am keeping the purchase. Though I have found both components cheaper on Ebay, I figure the new box will give me some piece of mind at least. If anything is intolerable, well I can go sell it on the mountain (Ebay of course). Then I'll have to go with your higher end suggestions.

Thanks again.

[This message has been edited by Konrad (edited March 26, 2003).]

Konrad,

As long as you're happy, we're happy.

Jeff