I was hoping otherwise, but I think you're right about this trend gonk. Although the 1070 is well suited for supporting future audio streams decoded externally such as TrueHD or DTS HD MA with its analog bass management capability and excellent signal path through the 7.1 connections, I don't see many of these type of HD DVD/Blu-ray players coming on the scene. In fact the trend in the under $600 players seem to be to provide limited decoding for analog outputs. Even if such players existed for an 'affordable' price it's debatable if the analog path would ever sound as good as the HDMI path...in fact there are a few threads on other forums on this very topic today with the concensus being the HDMI path sounds better. Certainly on my 1070 DD and DTS decoding in the receiver is superior to decoding on my DVD player, although the reverse is true for CDs.

I would definately like to see an upgrade in DACs for two channel audio in the 1070+ or at least in the 970+. In my mind, it's the main weak point in the 1070 since I'm fortunate enough not to be hit by the no-audio bug.

It'll be interesting to see if the Outlaws offer a trade-in on the 1070 for the purchase of Outlaw separates...I think they did something like this for the 1050. I'd certainly entertain moving from the 1070 to a 970+/7075 combination given a $500 or so trade-in. If not, I think I'd opt to keep the 1070 and add a 970+ rather than moving to a new receiver...would it make sense to use the 1070 purely as an amp?

-John

I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility of some fairly respectable-sounding HD players appearing eventually that could offer fairly complete internal decoding and decent 7.1 analog output. Unfortunately, I do agree with you that the current "tone" of the format war will make this unlikely in the near term - it's going to be left to companies like Denon/Marantz, LG, OPPO, and others on the periphery of the war who may be willing to try building a player (ideally a combo player that would support both formats) with some concern given to consumers who aren't willing to embrace HDMI. I guess I share your lack of overwhelming optimism...

As for the HDMI path sounding better, there are a number of variables to contend with there. The obvious first issue is DAC's and the overall analog signal path, an aspect where surround receivers and processors are more likely to excel than source players born amid a cost-sensitive format war. This is one that can be done very well in the player, if care is taken and a bit of money spent on that aspect of the player. The other issue is decoding and DSP, an aspect where the receiver will likely always dominate. The decoding itself isn't necessarily a big deal - especially with Blu-ray's multichannel PCM tracks that require no decoding at all and the TrueHD tracks that are relatively straightforward - but the associated DSP can make a big difference for things like bass management, time delay, and so forth.
It can be done - but there are some quirks associated with such an arrangement. I generally only recommend using a receiver as a power amp as a temporary measure. You would want to set the bass management switch to bypass, you'd have to set the 1070 to a fixed volume position and leave it there, and if you were using an Outlaw processor you'd have to work out how to turn it on and off without allowing it to pick up changes in input setting or volume setting sent to the processor. You'd be better off selling the 1070 to help pay for a 7075, as it would simplify setup and operation of the system - and I believe that it'd give you a larger power supply to boot.

Liz:

My system does double duty. And you've brought to my attention that those pics are pretty out of date! The amps have changed. My digital front end has changed. And all my cables have changed. Most of the updgrades were focused on improving two channel playback.

As to vinyl, I'm refocusing my attention on that for the moment: I've been experimenting with some dampening on the turntable; I'm going to upgrade my armboard; and I've been playing around with differnt tubes on my phono preamp. I also finally got around to repairing my record cleaning machine and am starting to hit the used record stores again! It's been fun. There's just something about vinyl. It sounds so darned good when you get things dialed in.

Best,

- VD

VD,

Glad to hear to read you are into Music in 2 channel. I do not like the sound so far and music in multi-channel unless it was recorded for that like in concert DVDs with the surrounds used for ambience.

I am debating on one day getting the Anthem amp modified to make it more like a tube amp with Liquidity, dimensionality, etc. It may the 1070 as the prwamp that keeps some of the dimensionality down.

Good grief... this thread seems to have sort of careened out of control

It's not my intent to offend anybody here... you all are a great bunch of guys! (and gals?? - are there any here??) But honestly, "wish-list" threads for audio products have always seemed silly to me. If any of the honchos at Outlaw get this far down in this topic, I'd be really interested to know how much attention they pay to these things.

Having said that... I agree with Gonk that full HDMI implementation is pretty much a must for all next-gen HT processors and receivers, from Outlaw or anybody else. And I must also agree that a bigger display on the 1070's successor would be welcome... H/K has nice big displays on even their lowest-priced models.

I must disagree with the several complaints about the 1070's DAC's. I actually like the sound of Cirrus DAC's and processors... even their cheap ones... it's kind of a "colder" sound than Burr-Brown and Wolfson. My personal favs have long been from Analog Devices, but I don't know if they even make DAC's anymore (?)

In any case, I have always found that the power supplies and analog portions of processors and amps make a bigger difference in sound quality anyway.

Alexandru - Gee, you seem to have a knack for describing what I hear in audio products, but can't quite describe myself. Your statement "the sweet midrange and full-bodied sound with the right dynamics" is *exactly* what I hear in the 1070, and that I don't hear in the competition. This is one sweet-sounding receiver that doesn't round-off or otherwise color the signal to get that sound.

Lizard King - Please continue posting about your new amp. It sounds like you're hearing the same improvements that I heard with the Emotiva, as compared to the 1070. I would use the 1070 as a pre/pro myself when I upgrade, except for one thing... my original reason for wanting to upgrade from the 1070 was to get rid of the darn bugs in the pre/pro section!

Videodrome - I have to say... I just don't understand why anybody still fiddles around with vinyl. Just too much hassle and expense to get it sounding right. The only phono cartridge I ever really liked (and this dates back like 20-30 years) was a kinda weird design from Decca, but half of 'em didn't work right out of the box, and the other half usually quit working after a month or two. Gotta love the Brits

David_W.

I hooked up my Surrounds and center channel to the amp last night. I have been playing signal through them since as the interconnects are brand new and require break in.

I can comment on 2.1 channel music. The 1070 is a fine receiver, it handled all functions well. When using it as a preamp it is flexible. My amp has twin Power supplies (toroids). That gives it an advantage, especially for reserves. The amp has more power (170W x 5. I was playing a live Led Zeppelin concert (Snow Jobs Vancouver 1975 SBD). I decided to turn up the volunme and I was amazed how John Henry Bonham was playing in my living room. The separate amp can play louder, sound fine at high volumes and that is expected.

Overall, I still find the HF to be better, the LF to be punchier, and tighter. I feel the SQ is more transprent. The music sounds betetr overall!

I have fallen asleep on my couch for 3 consecutive evenings, that's a first for me.

I would have to say that The 1070 feels cooler to the touchg since it the unit isn't driving the speakers.

When listening to DVDs , I still feel that SQ is compressed and I struggle with the center channel.

When playing older movies, esp Dolby 2.0, I use my modified Denon to decode movies so I hear better dialogue. Is my Center Channel (Ascend 340M (classic) not up to the task or is the 1070 lean sounding when decoding movies using the Crystal D/A's as opposed to the Burr Browns in the Denon?

Realize as I am not the typical HT type, I am an audiophile. When you have this disease it it is tough to be pleased.

The 1070 passes smy audiophile test for what it is. A receiver that can do it all till you move to separates.

Cd's esp original releases back in 80's suck! LP's rule big time over those. I do not use a turntable, I was never that meticulous.

Before I joined my old Audiophile club (I am no longer active though I am going to meeting tonight), I went to visit someone who plyed a 1st generation Sony CD player and then we played the same LP's on a Roksan Xerses turtable. The result was simple, the LP's sounded like music and the Cd's sounded like processed vomit.

Since that time there are remastered issues from the original labels using modern technicques, reissues by Steve Hoffman and MFSL.

Should you have an SACD player, I strongly urge you to look into SACD's. The SACD with it's DSD as opposed to PCM is really a quantam leap for most (not all) Discs I have listened too.

I will tell you I only had Pink Floyd DSOTM prior to my DVD player being modified. Now I have more and i want to get more yet there are not enogh titles available becuase teh stupid consumer market place is not demanding them, they get their bastart MP3's and stupid Itunes BS downloads. I cannot listen to Compressed music, It irritates me.

If the 1070 had a phono input and if i had a turntable, I feel confident the SQ would be fuller, more dimensional, more pleasing than most CD's.

They do - in fact the Model 990 uses Analog Device AD1852 24-bit/192kHz DAC's.

Better DAC's are needed ! I believe the Anthem Preamp processors use AKM AK4382 DAC's. These should sound better due to higher quality. Can anyone comment on these? Of course the Anthem are costly :-(

Yeah, but the Anthem processors cost between $4700 and $6700 - I doubt we'll see many parallels in critical chipset selection between those and a sub-$1000 receiver.

Since this thread is good and jacked anyway...

Because you can't always find gems like these on CD (just back from the used record store):
- Baroque Cello Concerti (Thomas Blees with the Stuttgart Soloists;
- Ravi Shankar, "Two Raga Moods;" and my favorite:
- Grant's Scotch Whisky 1979 Piping Championship, Piobaireachd