Hey, where's the bartender in here anyway? I'm getting mighty thirsty!

I was pouring over the Arcam AVR250 specs. and reviews and noticed quite a few similarities with the Outlaw 1070. They both seem to be targetted at the "good HT AND good music" crowd. Both don't have a lot of the features I don't care about such as DSP modes and Auto-EQ. Power-wise they're pretty close. Interestingly, they both have the 4/8 ohm switch and same power ratings for both. I haven't seen that alot.

This reviewer figured the bi-amping made a noticable difference, I see the 1070 doesn't have this capability.
http://ultimateavmag.com/avreceivers/605arcam/
Anyone know offhand if this could be added with a future software upgrade or would that involve hardware changes?

Anyway, with the 1070's beefy power supply and high-quality components it's looking to me like a less expensive AVR250 with a bit of a trade off in the feature dept.( Arcam has bi-amp or Zone 2 and shockingly no pre-amp outputs; Outlaw has DVI-switching and analog bass management). I haven't heard the AVR250, but in my mind if the 1070 consider's it competition that's got my attention. Is the 1070 a serious competitor to the AVR250? Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the two? Am I expecting/hoping for too much from the 1070? Should I squirrel away a few more coins and consider a 990/7125 combo instead?

Bar's open, John. Grab yourself a drink. Heck, grab yourself a Model 1070 if you want - I suspect you'd like it.

The Arcam and the Outlaw do look to have been developed with a similar goal in mind. Both use the same remote (the Catalyst48 from UEI), both have three component inputs and transcoding from composite or s-video to component, and both have similar amp ratings (although the Arcam rating may not hold up as well when all seven channels are driven, if the Ultimate AV review's comments about amp rating are correct). The Arcam's bi-amping option is nice, but if you actually have a 7.1 speaker setup (as more and more of us do these days) you can't use it. That leads directly into my biggest concern about the Arcam: no pre-amp outputs. The 1070 will let you get a well-equipped surround receiver now and add separate amps later (and amps can last a long time, meaning when you decide to upgrade to Blu-ray in a few years you can pick up a processor and already have the amp(s) in the rack - my multichannel amp was paired up with a receiver originally and has since seen two different processors). Plus, if you switch to really inefficient speakers or move the system into a really large space and find that you suddenly need 125W+ to drive your speakers properly (even just your mains), pre-amp outputs can keep you from having to scrap your receiver. No pre-amp outputs in a receiver costing over $1000 seems to be a strange and significant oversight (at least in my opinion). By the way, what speakers would you be driving with your new receiver?

John,
I can't give you any real listening feedback on the AVR250, but I used to utilize (and still own) an Arcam AV50. Suprisingly, the entry level ($1,000 new 6 yrs. ago) AV50 has pre-amp outs. Before I purchased the 1070 I looked at the AVR250, as I had excellent results with the AV50. The fact that the Arcam did not have pre-amp outs was a deal breaker.

I was going to spring for a 990/Some Amp Combo, but had to hold off for additional funds. Then Outlaw came out with the 1070. The sound is as good as I had hoped and I don't have to buy additional amps right now. I use Def Tech 7002's for my front mains with a CLR 2500 (center) and BP2X's for the rears. The sound is as loud as one can stand and detailed and open as any mid-fi system I've ever heard.

If you can afford the 990/7125 combo, I'd go that route. Actually if I had my choice, I'd go the 990/2200 mono block route. However, if you want great sound now at a lower cost, you can't beat the 1070.

I'm taking a strong liking to this place already...next round's on me!

gonk & Ragnar,

Thanks for the comments.

It's hard to imagine how Arcam arrived at the decision to omit the pre-amp outptus on the AVR250, I assume it's a case of marketing gone mad, figuring this would "encourage" prospective buyers to move up to the AVR300. Bad idea.

I have a set of older model AR speakers with a pair of 310HOs(95dB rated to 35Hz) as mains, AR2C(94dB rated to 45Hz) for center and a pair of 206HOs(91dB rated to 65Hz) bringing up the rear as well as a Paradigm PS1000 sub. The speakers still sound good but are getting a bit long in the tooth. If I were to get new speakers I'd probably go for something in the Paradigm Studio 60/80/100 range. Being in Canada, it's hard to beat Paradigms for value. The ARs don't really need high-wattage as much as high-current clean power. I used to own an H/K AVR30 pro-logic receiver rated at 60wpc/6ohm/40amps that really sounded great with stereo music. Since then I've been through a few DD receivers including newer H/K and NAD models. H/K sure ain't what it used to be. I liked the NAD the best, but had quality problems with two of them, so I moved on to a Cambridge Audio 540R. It's great for HT, but for music something is off. It's great at low to moderate volumes, but anything lounder loses the smoothness.

The 990/7125 combo is out of my price range at the moment, but I'm in no great hurry. I'll just mosey around a bit more and wait for a few more 1070 reviews to come in before making a decision.

Sounds like a good plan, John - glad to have you here in the saloon. I'm a long ways from Canada myself, but still enjoy my v2 Paradigm Studios a great deal.

Thanks for the warm welcome gonk. I've been reading through the forums here and just gotta' say that WOW you really know your stuff!

Glad you're enjoying the Paradigms, I'm not too far from the NRC location where they did their research:
http://www.paradigm.com/Website/RandD/RandD/NRC_Research.html

Your point about allowing for more power in the future is well taken. When I moved my A/V setup from a small living room to a large basement, I noticed there was a substantial difference in sound reproduction. I think at this point I've pretty well written off the AVR250 for lack of pre-amp outputs.

*EDIT UPDATE* Just looked up the $CDN price for the Arcam AVR250. MSRP is C$2300. I just about fell off my stool at the ol' Outlaw bar. I figure with shipping/taxes/duties the 1070 should come in around C$1350. That's pretty darn close to what I paid for my H/K AVR30 back in the day. Just a matter of time now...