I've heard the Rotel amp and was quite taken by the sound produced.

Altec:

This is one of MANY Class D amps that are getting rave reviews...

http://www.axiomaudio.com/a1400-8.html

This is the future (or mass produced amps), whether one likes it or not...

I realize that it is the "future" - for the "masses" at least. I am highly suspicious of "rave reviews" of a technology which not only does not improve on the performance of conventional linear amplifiers, but cannot equal it in sonic terms. That's not just a value judgment, but is a hard, accurate conclusion based on knowing the technology very well in both types of amplifiers and spending lots of time to evaluate both types on the laboratory bench.

Let's face it - magazines, websites and manufacturers which cater to any hobby owe it to their very existence to promote "new" technologies and churn the upgrade machine, regardless of if the "new" technologies are the answer to a technical problem or are simply, in the case of digital amplifiers, cheaper to manufacture.

Digital certainly has potential benefits (reduced concerns about cooling and greater efficiency both mean direct manufacturing savings in heat sinks and power supplies). The Axiom amp is a good example - it has gotten very good reviews, but at what cost? As far as features are concerned, it's a flattened 7700 (balanced inputs and 7x200W all channels driven) for nearly $4000. I know how much current my system is drawing when it's cranked up - replacing $2000 work of solid state amps with $4000 worth of digital amps will save me some equipment space and will provide a utility bill payback measured in decades. In fact, my best guess is that I'd be lucky (based on my system usage and current draw) to save $1.80 a month in utility costs. Round that to an even $2.00 (may save a bit more in cooling in the summer, lose a bit of free heating in winter), and that's an 83.3 year payback, assuming I sold my existing amps for their list prices (which wouldn't happen, since my newest amp is approaching two years old). If there was an audible benefit that warranted an extra $2000 investment or I had a situation where I was really constrained on space and heat gain, I could happily take that 80- to 100-year payback (or as much of it as I live to see) as a bonus from using an amp like this. In the absence of those, I'm content to stay with what I've got.

This breed of amps will most certainly become a staple of receiver amp sections - it's already that way for some, as Panasonic's been using digital amps in their receivers for some time now - and, who knows, it may allow receivers to pack better amp sections as the technology matures and becomes more affordable, since the two benefits mentioned earlier are going to pay the biggest dividends in the crowded real estate inside a receiver chassis. I agree with Altec, though, that it will be slower to gain significant adoption in separate power amps. A company like Outlaw will likely be well served to stick to good quality, well built, good sounding solid state hardware until an amp like the A1400-8 can be built for the same price or less than class A/B and be a match for those amps sonically. From what I've seen in the marketplace, we're not there yet.

They will never be there. The problem is the passive network which has to be on the output of a digital amp in order to filter the clocking frequencies out. It is impossible to make this complex enough to filter out the clock entirely (or even enough), and not effect damping factor adversely. The sampling frequencies cannot be raised high enough with any forseeable solid state devices without incurring other losses in efficiency.

It is a lot of hoops to jump through for something which is not even as good as what we have now (the bandwidths will never match analog amps for instance). Without doubt they are the future, but thankfully I am not going to have to be part of it.

Hi

Has anyone had a chance to compare the Model 7125 vs. Emotiva's UPA-7?

With the current sale of the model 7125 vs. the current price increase of Emotiva's UPA-7 they aren't that far apart cash wise.

Performance wise they seem similar. I'm new to amps and reading all the specs.

http://emotiva.com/upa7.shtm

I would use either one for a 7.1 channel ht set-up.

Thx JD

The fact that it outweighs the Outlaw by 20 lbs probably says something about its construction. Looks to be a beast!!

I've always liked Outlaw's amps, and there has always been a price difference between Emotiva and Outlaw (partly due to the fact that Outlaw builds their multichannel amps domestically using ATI, the same folks that build amps for the likes of Lexicon) while Emotiva builds them overseas. The overseas approach isn't bad, but it inherently costs less.

Thank you Gonk & Xenonman for your input. I'm going to stick with the UPA-7 for now. It looks like tank. Later when I'm ready to upgrade I'll probably go with Outlaw. I'm leaning towards Outlaw's 7200 but time will tell. Are the 7200, 7500 & 7700 series amps definitely made in the USA? I have the Model 2200 monoblocks and I saw they were made in Taiwan.

Sometimes what makes me doubt Emotiva is where certain pro reviews found an Emotiva amp (MPS-1 I think) delivering less than the 200 watts per channel into 8 ohms while in another review they found the Outlaw Audio model 7125 deliver more than the 125 watts per channel into 8 ohms. The differences weren't much in both cases. Maybe 15-25 watts which I guess isn't much...

Ugh. I think I have to stop reading reviews and just let my ears be the judge. Thx again.

They are definitely made in the USA. All of the multichannel amps (7075, 7125, 7200, 7500, 7700, 7900, and the previous multichannel amps) are built in California by ATI. It's helpful to remember that Outlaw, like many other internet-direct companies, doesn't own their own factories. They partner with specific manufacturers who are best-suited to a specific product. For Outlaw and multichannel amps, that has been ATI all the way back to the original Model 750 in 1999 or so.
I remember some of that debate. I don't recall the specific test procedures used, but frankly getting the product specs right is not something to be casual about - and 15 to 25 watts is fairly significant when you are talking about it representing 5% to 10% of the rated output. Outlaw has historically been careful to rate power amps conservatively (so a "200 watt" amp may be able to produce 209 watts).