So need to know the best route to go. I want a 997 NOW! $$$ will be an issue though. I have talked myself into pulling the trigger now on either a 970/7125 or a 990/7125 combo to get in the game (unless someone tells me a really good reason to reach for the 7500 instead - better quality sound?). I know the value of separates and I have the perfect reason to upgrade now....my barely adequate stop gap Yamaha doesn't do HDMI. Of course neither do the 970 ($379...r u kidding me? - what I paid for the Yamaha) or 990 but buying now makes me the move and gets the amp in place. After some $$ save-age I can then get perhaps a non-first release 997. Music/sound here is important although I tend to try and listen to 5 channel mixes that are done right.

Amp questions - any real improvements through the Outlaw iterations? Cost wise I could even get 5 M2200's for less than a 7500....what's the best way to go for now and future?

Thoughts? advice?

I have two systems..one in my family room that is my main system and home theater as well..and a mainly music system in my living room.

In the last couple weeks I purchased an Integra dhc 9.9 preamp/processor and ALSO an Outlaw 990. I love them both. The 990 is in my living room system and the sound through Magnepan speakers and a threshold amp is very impressive. I seldom watvh the TV there..it's an older 27 inch Sony Trinitron with only s video inputs...no HD capabilities at all. The 990 has higher quality video switching than I need there.

I could have been very satisfied with a 990 in my main system as well, it just wouldn't have been quite as convenient without the hdmi capabilities. The price is sure right though at the moment. PLUS, Outlaw is offering a 200 buck discount on the 997 for anyone who buys a 990 now for 699. I just saw a used 990 sell on ebay for $521. The math works out well there.

Scott

A couple thoughts:

The 970 will cost less now, but the 990 will likely have a better resale value when you replace it with the 997. From that standpoint, spending a little more now may save you a bit later. At worst, you'd break even and have the better unit during the interim. Plus the 990 and 997 are roughly the same size, so your equipment rack will already be situated to accommodate the 997.

The $200 discount for 970 and 990 owners who want to buy a 997 is good for six months after the 997 is released. Rumors are putting the Sherwood R-972 in production possibly as soon as late April, so the earliest I anticipate the 997 arriving is the front end of July. If you think you'll buy the 997 before the year is out, you would still have that discount well in hand.

The Klipsch speakers you have are going to be pretty efficient. The RF-35 has a rated efficiency of 98dB - a speaker like that shouldn't ever need more power than the 7125 can offer, so with those speakers in mind I would have a hard time pushing you to step up to the 7500 or a stack of M2200's.

I've spent quite a few hours over the last few days listening to and getting to know, my new 990. It is superb on music..both two channel and surround. It replaced a 10 year old Harmon Kardon signature 2.0 . The HK sold for 2400 bucks in 1999, was made in the USA and was designed for the audiophile market. The 990 sounds much better.

I've listened to DTS encoded surround sound CD's , as well as DVD-audio discs. They all sound wonderful through the 990. I have also been very impressed with the pro logic II-music surround mode on normal two channel music. The 990 has several parameters that you can customize within the PLII mode for the best results on your system.

I'd have to agree. The ONLY reason I'm going to replace the 990 is to get more digital video inputs. As far as 2 channel and multi-channel sound goes, I've yet to hear anything even close to it in that price range(even at the older and much higher price).

Blue ray is a non-issue for me since I don't have any plans to join the party until it gains more traction...which I suspect will be years off into the future.

Best,

Thanks for the quick response folks. I've been counting the seconds (about 3 yrs now) until I could afford a B&K Ref. 70/200.5 (my neighbor had the coolest theater with the best sound I've ever heard - B & K Ref20,125W/5 amp, Classic AR fronts, B&W 600 series center and surrounds but had lightning strike and got talked into the Top ~$5k Yamaha receiver which sounds like crap to me). That's when I KNEW separates must happen soon. I ramble, however.

gonk - I know I don't NEED more power but thinking ahead....if I get good clean power I might upgrade the speakers some day. Just trying to get the right "sound" now. Any discernable sonic differences between the Outlaw power options? Anyone done a side by side before?

The other question I've got is concerning Emotiva (discovered in the Outlaw saloon here for first time). Their price points are even more ridiculous than Outlaw's with similar testimonies on-line though with less volume. Example:

Emotiva UMC-1/XPA-5 ~$1500
Outlaw 997/7500 ~$3000

I've always believed you get what you pay for generally speaking but Outlaw seems to have redefined that a bit. Has Emotiva gone one better? I've seen this question raised elsewhere in the saloon...just seeing if anyone can update the thought?

I've compared the older Outlaw 750 to the 7500 (my Model 7500 review touches on that a bit) and found the differences to be subtle. The 7125 offers less power than the 750, but it is also a more recent design - I'd expect the results of a 7125/7500 matchup to be similar, so long as the speakers being used and the listening room didn't create a need for the 7500's extra power.

As for the Emotiva question, I'm maybe not the best one to ask. I was involved in a very lengthy online debate about their first in-house processor design (the LMC-1). In my opinion, that product was abandoned without having a number of significant design flaws fixed, some of which were the result of intentional design decisions and others of which were potentially fixable firmware problems. Others (including Emotiva) would disagree with me on that, but the whole experience was a tiring one for me. I hope that their second generation of processors turns out better, because it's good to see more than one company doing what Outlaw has done. Much of the cost difference you will see in Outlaw vs Emotiva amps is due to the way both companies build their amps. Outlaw has been partnered with ATI for about a decade now (the Model 750 was released in 1999, I believe) for all of their multichannel amps, and ATI is a California-based outfit for both design and manufacturing. If you want a fun chuckle, check out the Secrets of Home Theater review of Lexicon's $10,000 7x300W power amp - that amp is built by ATI for Lexicon, and it bears a number of striking similarities to Outlaw's $3,500 Model 7900. There's clearly some real value in Outlaw's power amps. However, US-made power amps will invariably cost more than the Chinese-built amps that Emotiva is offering.

I wasn't aware of your previous row with Emotiva. Ignoring the actual brand names, I would take issue with the US vs "somewhere else" production being better or worse (ignoring the politics). As long as the device is competently designed and it is built with parts per the design spec, who cares where it is made?

I've never purchased an Emotiva product, but I am thinking of evaluating one of their XPA-5 amps. The price is very compelling (half the cost of an Outlaw 7500) and if it sounds as good as my Outlaw/ATI 755 then it really doesn't matter to me who's name is on the faceplate. Like most consumers I just want to get the most bang for my buck when I buy a theater system. I don't see why both companies can't operate in the same "direct to consumer" space. They're both effectively fabless design houses and I suspect most of their gear (with the noted exception of some of the amps) probably being made in the same place(s).

Best,

I'm not questioning the quality of Emotiva's amps because I haven't heard them - I'm speaking to the cost difference.

“I know I don't NEED more power but thinking ahead....if I get good clean power I might upgrade the speakers some day. Just trying to get the right "sound" now.”

Your situation and future plans matter. As gonk said, if you stay with your Klipsh speakers which are very efficient the 7125 will give you plenty. I run a 7125 with less efficient speakers in a huge room and I’m very happy with it. If you’re planning on investing a bundle on b+w, and/or putting your theatre in a bigger room in your house or moving some day to a bigger house, then maybe the 7500 becomes more appealing for an extra $600.

“Any discernable sonic differences between the Outlaw power options? Anyone done a side by side before?”

This is debatable. I’ve read opinions on both sides in this forum and others. My 2 cents say that your future plans matter more.
I considered the emotive upa-7 before I bought the 7125, and I almost bought it. The 7125 was on sale for 800, the upa-7 was on sale for 600. Specs are almost identical – emotiva has slightly more noise, whether it’s a noticeable amount I don’t know. Only other drawback I could find was resale value on emotiva seemed a lower % of selling price on places like ebay, audiogon and classifieds. I guess these 2 things were enough to sell me on outlaw, but I have to agree with Ritz2: I could care less where something was made – quality and cost matter – geographic orientation does not.