First a short story.

On other forums there is plenty of recent talk / excitement about Oppo's possible BD player. Photos from a show combined with speculation got a real buzz going.

And a digression.

I've said many times that my three next planned purchases, in order of importance are Outlaw's next gen pre/pro, a 1080p projector, and a BD player (with SACD/DVD-A capability.)

The Oppo buzz was right in line with the third on my list. So I sent them an email asking about some very specific features etc. and guess what? They immediately replied and answered all of those questions. No waffling. Just straight answers. I now have a really good idea what to expect - and when (within a three month window.) I can plan on that.

Oppo is to DVD (and soon BD) as Outlaw is to pre/pros - at least in my books.

Here's a chance for Outlaw to prove me right: what features are you hoping to incorporate into your 990 replacement? When do you hope it will it be ready for sale?

I've left lots of wiggle room by using "hope".

Thanks.

Since the OPPO BD is not a 'replacement' for any of their current DVD players, it will not affect the sales of those much.

Whereas, giving you information about the 'new' Outlaw pre/pro can directly affect the sales of their current product line, due to the buyers will be waiting for the next product.

So, I personally don't think you're going to get a reply about it.

Given the age of the 990 (and 970), are the anticipated processors/recievers replacements as opposed to new products altogether? It would seem that these products have outlived thier intended lifespan but new products were not available due to a delay from Cirrus Logic. Many competitors have released details of thier up coming products including S.N. S.N. has indicated a different room correction device than Audessy. Integra has released details. Denon released their details months ago about the 09 series. These outfits have even released product brochures.

When looking at what SN is intending on releasing and comparing it to the 990/970, these are completely different products in terms of connectivity, user interface, decoding etc. It wouuld seem that by not releasing details, the customer base may be decreasing.

I'm of two minds on this subject.

On the one hand, I was here when Outlaw talked in great detail about the Model 950 and got hammered due to delays as a result - because of that, I can relate to the desire to be tight-lipped until the product is about to start moving down an assembly line and the only potential snags are in transit. From that standpoint, I don't expect to hear anything from Outlaw on a 990 successor until it is as close at hand as the 990 was when it was unveiled (which in that case meant on a freighter a few days out of Korea). I'm even relatively comfortable with the idea that it will pop up out of thin air at some point with no prior warning.

On the other hand, I'd really enjoy seeing some sort of announcement. I'm not sure I'd want to hear much about release date (down that road lies much gnashing of teeth when dates are missed, as Outlaw and a number of other companies has learned the hard way) but it's hard to argue against the fun of dissecting feature sets and hardware pictures while you wait for a product to arrive.

Interesting point of view with the 950 history. While I enjoy speculation on upcoming products and can appreciate delays and testing needs, much of my curiousity is satisfied with pictures of up coming products. I get a much better idea of what is up and coming and its' usefullness to me.

I thought we would see something from SN or Outlaw at the CEDIA via Ultimate AV about the next generation of recievers or pre/pros. Maybe something will get posted.

There was some mention of Sherwood's R-972 in all the CEDIA coverage, particularly regarding its Trinnov room correction software (which was apparently quite impressive)...

Forgive my ignorance but who is SN?

Sherwood Newcastle.

I believe the 990 was based on the SN P-965, correct me if I'm wrong. I've only been looking at separates for a short time now, and these units were released a few years ago.

Yes, SN is Sherwood Newcastle. They developed a receiver a number of years ago now (the R-965) which was used to create a surround processor (the P-965, which was just the R-965 with no amps in it). Boston Acoustics briefly sold a P-965 with a different faceplate on it, but before that unit appeared Outlaw took the platform and made some significant changes to create the 990: added XLR outputs, added DVI switching, and re-wrote a lot of the software (new bass management software, new user interface).

At present, Sherwood has said they have no plans for a P-972 - just the R-972. It will have the Trinnov software that has been getting a fair bit of attention lately as well as the same Reon video chip used in the Toshiba XA2 and Onkyo's 905 receiver. Much like the R-965 before it, the R-972 has the potential to be a quite interesting platform.

Lee,

I disagree with you completely.

Oppo's new BD player will most certainly affect sales of their current DVD product line. They are doing the smart thing and letting people who would otherwise buy something now from someone else know that, with a little patience, they can buy an Oppo BD player "this Winter." That's enough to cause me to put off buying a new Sony unit - since I can be patient AND since I know it will have the features that I'm looking for.

My point is that Outlaw could do the same: tell us what they are planning to release and when. Not a date. Just a season! If they don't know what features they are planning, at this stage of the game, then I'm concerned.

There are units on the market now that offer all that I am looking for - and not for a price terribly greater than what we might expect from Outlaw for its next gen. But I'm a strange duck in these times: a loyal customer. I'd prefer to buy Outlaw. Always said so. But Outlaw's not making it easy.

Throw us a bone guys!

Jeff Mackwood

I agree with Jeff that the BDP-83's announcement is certain to impact sales of their DV-983H (which, at $400, is not a player for the faint-of-heart to begin with, although it has sold remarkably well in spite of the relatively high price tag) since the BDP-83 is going to use the same video processing solution and add Blu-ray for probably a couple hundred dollars more. I doubt that sales of the DV-980H will see much effect from this announcement.

I with Jeff also. I don't think Oppo will lose much if any business by giving out info on the BD player in progress. Chances are those asking about an Oppo BD already have a good upscaling DVD player - probably an Oppo. I was also looking at a Sony (550) but am willing to see what Oppo will have in the winter. Besides if someone needs a good DVD player in the meantime the 980 for $170 is a great deal.

I think the same thought process should be used by Outlaw. Like Jeff many of us love our Outlaw product(s) and want to stay with them because we know we will be getting a good product in a future unit. We are willing to be patient and wait if we know what it is that may be in the works. We know the next gen pre/pro will be coming and are curious. I don't expect a firm date just would like some more info.

Oh, I think OPPO will see a slow-down on 983H sales as a result of this announcement. I'd be stunned if they didn't. The flip-side is that they are likely to cause a number of existing customers or potential customers to reconsider purchases of Sony S550's, Panasonic BD55's, or one of the new Pioneers until the BDP-83 arrives.

Having said that, I do think it would be fun to see a bit of a teaser on whatever Outlaw has cooking. We'll have to see what shakes loose. Think about this, though: if the BDP-83 or this thread were to give someone at Outlaw the idea of doing something similar for us, they may still need some time (maybe even a few weeks) to work out a way to gracefully announce something, especially if it were to include some decent quality pictures. Doing something "on a whim" can be messy.

As usual excellent point gonk.

Hello Jeff Mackwood,
I agreed with your statement " There are units on the market now that offer all that I am looking for - and not for a price terribly greater than what we might expect from Outlaw for its next gen. But I'm a strange duck in these times: a loyal customer. I'd prefer to buy Outlaw".
I want to pull the trigger on the Integra 9.8 or 9.9 processor but I like loyalty it tells a lot about people.
Knowing that Outlaw is coming out with a new Flagship 990 I think that after all of this time we should have a small eye opener as to what OUtlaw is coming out with and some idea as to its release.
The Integra is a fine piece of equipment for the price and in my area no taxes or shipping charges.
Regardless of a $1200.00 price tag that Outlaw was rumored to fix on the new 990 to previous owners adding the shipping charges and taxes will bring the unit to the same priceline as the Intergra 9.8 and I do not have to wait for it to be delivered.
Just anxious but I wish PT or Scott would cough up some information.
Christmas is right around the corner and I would not mine Santa coming to my house a little early.

I am going to the CES show this January and want to compare or see if there is something better on the horizon.
I hate to repeat myself but I am trying to be patient and I wonder if Outlaw is planting deaf ears on it's customers enthusiasm.

I have been saying the same thing as well. Im not asking for a pre-order, release date, final price or to be a beta tester.

A little info goes a long way sometimes. And as mentioned, we didnt abandon ship. I/We are trying to be loyal, but it has been hard as of late.

Maybe the Outlaws could sneek us a spy photo of the next pre/pro with vinyl covering certain areas, like what is done with cars.

I am in the same boat... I'm looking to upgrade my Denon (1805), which has run flawless for the past 2.5 years. Having never listened to a single Outlaw product I am waiting to see what they release and see if they can't earn my business in the process.

Here's the downside: I've auditioned both the new integra and the older Denon (3208?) and I am pleased with them both. They are both big upgrades to what I have now. My problem is that I've just upgraded to Blu Ray and a 1080P projector (panny). Now I have the video, but not the audio to back it up.

I am ready to purchase this month. I would wait if there's something worth waiting for but after the end of September hits I cannot wait on hopes that an online product that I've never heard will outperform the big boys. I am just not that patient.

The sad part is that if I do go with an integrated amp, I won't buy a slave amp. If I went with Outlaw (or waited for it to come out), they would get 2 purchases from me (probably a 7 x 200 watt amp). That being said, they might lose sales on the current pre that they have (which is already heavily reduced in price and therefore overall margin), but they would gain a full retail sale on 2 units in return.

Please dangle that worm in front of me and increase both my patience and desire for your product.

Darn, I just couldn't wait any longer. I just bought a new Integra 9.8 and couldn't be happier. A huge improvement over my beloved 990.

Why wait, it looks like the Integra has a huge winner AND it's available now!

Cheers!

Greg

I really want to wait too. I just got set up in my new home and hooked up my old receiver last night. The reciever does not have pre-outs and I have an Outlaw 7500 sitting in the closet at the moment. I'll try this out for a short time, but I am going to have to do something in the near future. The receiver works - but I'm not using my center channel as it appears to be sucking all the power from the receiver. going 2 channel till the upgrade happens (soon, very soon).


If I don't hear anything on the new Outlaw, I think I will have to either check out an old 990 (I would probably buy used as there appear to be many out there), or a new Integra.

because the Integra DHC-9.9 is just around the corner. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14651569#post14651569

I'm willing to wait and see what Outlaw offers.

It's always hard to decide when to buy new electronics. You can always find a reason to justify waiting for the "next big thing" but then you risk missing out on the enjoyment of something that's available right now. It's a balancing act, and each person has to decide when to "tip over" to making a purchase.

So true Gonk. Just glad that I was able to get a DHC-9.8 when I did. It pretty much blew me away with it's connectivity and just plain WOW factor.

Cheers!

It's been awhile since I've bought electronics here (since my 950 and 7100 are still running great!). But, I broke down and bought the 7900 amp last week and am waiting on the new pre from Outlaw also.

My questions is this.....has the bass management come a long way since 950 (in the 900 for example)? Cause for SACD and DVD-A, I still have the ICBM that I use. Since it's obsolete now, I figured that they didn't see a need for it anymore since many the bass management inside the pres is plenty good enough now. Thoughts?

Wow - going from a 7100 to a 7900... Yike...

For SACD and DVD-A in the analog domain, the ICBM remains hard to beat. The HDMI generation is providing us a way to leave SACD, DVD-A, and the other new high-res audio formats in the digital domain all the way to the processor, though, at which point the digital bass management (which has been only slightly expanded since the 950, which was one of the very first to offer triple crossovers) can be applied. That will simplify matters for you some and eliminate the need for the ICBM (assuming you have a DVD-A/SACD player that offers HDMI v1.1+ output).

Ya, I didn't want to have to upgrade amps ever again.

That makes sense. I forgot that they were allowing those hi-res audio formats to be transmitted via HDMI now. It was purely analog outputs when I got into it, I believe. I am using a PS3 right now, but I don't like it's standard definition video quality. My Denon 2910 is far superior for standard definition up-converstion to my projector. But, with the new Oppo BR play coming, and it being a universal player, I might be able to replace a few more components with it.

Gonk,

That new Oppo BD player that I mentionned to start this whole thread off will have HDMI connectivity for SACD - and DVD-A once implemented.

Jeff Mackwood

Yeah, I know - I've been keeping a close eye on it. The 983H is a fabulous piece of gear, and the BDP-83 will offer scaling and deinterlacing at least equal to it. If the BDP-83 does what it has the potential to do (both performance and features), it's going to be a very interesting piece of hardware.

Pssst... I think Outlaw's been reading this thread....

I haven't had time to really pick through this announcement this morning (need to go hunt down a couple mark-ups from a final review and see about getting a job out the door this morning), but my brief scan makes me think the audience here will find it interesting. I know I'll be looking more closely at it later.

gonk,
You will find it interesting.
I like the fact about using TI DSP's and the price is very resonable.

It appears to have a few goodies under the hood.

Thanks Outlaw for throwing us a bone.....

Yes. I'm looking forward to the release.

To repeat what I said elsewhere - THANK YOU - to the Outlaws.

Now all I need to do is decide what my next projector purchase will be.

Pre/pro: check.

BD player: check.

Projector: time to start hunting.

Outlaws, thank you for releasing info regarding the Outlaw 997 pre-pro.

Rob

Likewise, Thanks for the info update. Much appreciated.

For those of you interested, I came across some intial glimpses of the new Oppo BD player; thought I'd share:

http://gizmodo.com/5046217/oppo-bdp+s83-blu+ray-player-may-be-first-almost-universal-disc-reader

John