I am considering a new processor. Currently I have the 990.
I am interested in the new 990 that is suppose to come out before the holidays but I recently auditioned the Integra DTC 9.8 and was impressed by it's proformence not to mention all of the extras.
Does anyone have an opion on this processor? Will the new Outlaw 990 out perform Integra's video processing? HQ V Reon-VX

We don't know enough about the 990's successor to say anything definitive. The Reon chip is widely used and might even show up in whatever Outlaw releases, but how the implementation compares on each is impossible to predict. The Integra 9.8 and Onkyo 885 processors (both based on the Onkyo 905 receiver platform) are certainly very respectable units with a ton of features. Even if we can't effectively compare the two, it's certainly not a bad choice if you want something now...

Good question. Maybe my question/input may further help you. Can someone help me with a question I have regarding these two Pre/Pros (Outlaw 990 & Integra 9.8)? I know that you appear to question the video processing capabilities, I'm not sure on whether this pertains to you, but a big factor I have is the better of the two in 2 channel audio (my current needs are 60%tv/30%music/10%gaming). If my understanding is correct, please read below for one big difference.

I plan on using my external DAC for music and run it through the analog inputs on the Pre/Pro. Am I understanding this correctly that the Integra does two more conversions even though I'm using anolog inputs? I'm assuming that the current Outlaw does not have this problem in bypass??

I know this is not related to video processing, but this is my understanding of the differences in the current models - so if you have a good external DAC, the Outlaw may be the better choice, which I'm assuming the successor will stay true to this logic.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I wouldn't mind someone confirming on whether this is correct or not.

I was just coming over here to ask the same question.

First some info on Integra versus Onkyo 805 from Home Theater HiFi review:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/processor...-7.1-ssp_2.html

"Sometimes users question if they are getting any value in buying a higher end piece from a company like Integra over say a mid-lineup receiver and just using the receiver as an SSP. This is one time where we can make a direct comparison of the two options. Brian Florian recently reviewed the Onkyo TX-SR805. While these reviews have very little to do with one another (SSP vs. receiver) you can't help but draw a few comparisons. As an example, both have Audyssey room setup, HDMI 1.3a, and support all the latest surround formats. One would hope that for $600 more than the 805, the Integra 9.8 would have superior audio and video circuitry. Brian lives fairly close to me, so we measured both units using the exact same equipment. In all aspects, the 9.8 measured better. In the simple frequency response test, while the receiver is down almost 0.75 dB from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, the Integra 9.8 is down only 0.015 dB over the same frequency range. This kind of performance is amazing for an SSP at this price point. THD+N was lower on the 9.8 than the 805 as well.

Some of the internal components are better in the 9.8 as well. For example, it uses a toroidal power supply transformer, where the receiver just uses a conventional (though massive) power transformer. The menu options are different too, as the SR805 only allowed 0.5 ft increment adjustments for speaker distance, while the 9.8 allows for 0.2.

So, don't be worried about spending the extra coin on the 9.8. You really are getting more for the money. "

I couldn't find anything about whether or not the Integra has an analog bypass mode. I am looking at this unit, the new outlaw, or an external dac to use with my 970. I have been using the 970 in analog bypass but recently gave it's DAC another shot and the one thing that is nice about using the internal DAC is the bass management, it is really nice using my LFM-1EX with my two channel, even though I have the av123 strata minis which have powered woofers. I too would prefer to use an external DAC, there is such a big difference between DACs and it is nice to not to be stuck with the DAC in your pre-pro. But, from what I have heard the DAC in the Integra is outstanding for two channel music, it is supposed to be THE processor to use with digital sources. This is definitely going to be the processor for outlaw to beat.

Just to be clear, the Onkyo I mentioned earlier was the 885, not the 805 - the 805 receiver is a step down from the 905 receiver, while the 885 is a processor based on the 905. The Integra 9.8 is also based on the 905.

I think the 885 and 9.8 both offer some sort of analog bypass, and I suspect the 990's replacement will as well. The 885/9.8 is generally regarded as a stand-out offering, although it has had some firmware woes (early restrictions on control of the Reon chip, a weird "bitstream bomb" with some DTS-ES tracks, and complaints about slow signal acquisition times) as well as issues with installing firmware updates. If other HDMI v1.3 processors had existed, they might have been more heavily penalized for all of that. Being so far ahead of the pack with what is apparently a basically sound, good-quality unit has put them firmly in the leadv- and I would suspect that Outlaw and others have been keenly aware of that.

The 885 is from Onkyo Pro and is exactly the same as the 9.8, but the 885 comes with rack mount ears and the face plate is differnt. Apparently the rack mount ears are the reason for the extra $200. However, you can find the 885 more readily on the web and for a discount where you'll have to press your dealer for the 9.8.

Can't wait to see what Outlaw releases.

Thanks for all of the responses.
I myself wish that Outlaw would let the cat out of the bag about the new 990, however I know because of marketing reasons we won't know anything until perhaps November.
I intend to hold off until Outlaw releases the information regarding there new processor.
My mouth is watering. The .... with summer bring on the crys of winter.
I have a loyalty to Outlaw and hope to continue the loyalty but with not even a rumor about ther new flagship model I want to run out and buy that DTC 9.8...... but I am not.

Patience,Patience. I need a Sam Admans light!!

Is this not a GREAT hobby.

You and I both. I'm itching to pull the trigger. I'm not excited about the 9.8, but it is available now. Patience, patience.....

My bad. Thanks for the clarification.
Living with the 970 has made me less confident in Outlaw. The 1070 and 970 they designed from scratch (same processing engine of course) and they have both been buggy and of decent but not outstanding quality. The 990 they piggybacked off of the Sherwood. I am not sure if I want to take a chance on another outlaw processor, so I am more willing to look at the Integra...

As it stands now of course Integra has the upper hand. However we all can be amazingly surprised with the new 990 model. After all as we are on this forum speculating what Outlaw has up it's sleeve for it's new entry in the electronic market Outlaw's head ringleader Peter Tribeman knows what they are up against.
Peter Tribeman is notably a up to date savvy and need I say intelligent part of the equation at Outlaw Audio.
I myself have found Outlaw to be a very sound company both in product and customer service. No doubt I am itching to purchase the DTC9.8 from Integra...I can almost TASTE the sale being made. But I am waiting for Outlaw to pull the rabbit out of the hat and I do believe that I will be pleasantly surprised.
My interest first is the HQ V Reon-VX that the Integra has and if Outlaw is able to match or outshoot the video processing of the Integra I think that I will stay with my partner outlaws.
I am also interest in two channel stereo and from the reports on the Integra it does an oustanding job.
Sorry that you have had issues with your 970. Admittingly I could have your attitude as well.

On the topic of a new processor and the recent sale prices of the SMS. If the new processor has a room correction device such as Trinnov is there a need for a subwoofer related room correction device? I do not know that much about room correction devices, but I would imagine that if one is going to be part of the next gen. pre/pro would not be so advanced to address what the SMS does? It could just be a coincidence that the SMS is on sale, and the release of a new reciever from SN that includes the Trinnov Room Correction.

Anyone know how well the Silicon Optix Video processing works? Again, this is what SN is apparently releasing.

Assuming that Outlaw uses the SN platform, we do have some idea of what is on the horizon.

Someone else asked this question recently - there are folks who use the SMS-1 with Audyssey MultEQ, but the presence of room correction in the processor does reduce the justification for a standalone like the SMS-1. Trinnov, from what little I've heard about it from a Sherwood thread at AVS, sounds like it could be even a step up from Audyssey MultEQ, at which point the justification for keeping (or buying) an SMS-1 would probably start to dwindle appreciably.

As for the sale, it could be what you describe or it could be working to keep sales going with the recent economic turn-down (we won't use the "r" word). Or it could even be both, for all I know...

An Onkyo Pro 885 replaced my Outlaw 950. Problem is, all my sources are now digital, so I can't really comment on its analog performance. I will say after having spent a lot of time on the dedicated threads at AVS, that no one seems to be singing the praises of the analog section, so if that is important to you, I would recommend holding off until you can get meaningful comparisons.

What I can tell you - with digital sources, the 885 is great. I am running a PS3 into it for DVD, BD, CD and SACD, all over HDMI. Could not be happier with the performance here, using the direct or pure mode for audio only material, and the audyssey eq'ed settings for surround sound HT stuff.

On the video front, the problem there is it is not configurable by input. So while I saw a worthwhile improvement in the quality of my DishNetwork feed using it, I did not want it touching my BD and DVD video as the PS3 does a nice job with those, while the Reon setup in the Onkyo cannot be trusted to leave signals unmolested, excepting 1080p24 which it does not process. Result, I bypass the video processing completely at present.

BB

Does it have an analog bypass mode? This would eliminate any further analog processing. Most people would either be using the built in DACs for digital sources or an outboard DAC and analog bypass mode.However, if you can only run the analog inputs through an additional conversion process that would be a significant limitation.

I just read over on the avsforum that the Integra 9.9 will be shipping in September.... Not sure how credible this is.

Tempting, but I still don’t want to abandon my external DAC.

I've heard that the next gen of Onkyo (and thus Integra) was due soon, so I suspect the AVS rumors are pretty reasonable. What I wonder about is what changes they're making between the 9.8 (which just started shipping last fall) and the 9.9.

From what I understand: Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume, only based off of some pictures that have been floating around the internet. Not sure if much else has been changed.

I was thinking the same, very quick to release the next model..

Too bad outlaw doesn't make the ICBM anymore. That would give you bass management when using an external DAC and analog bypass.
They could make it a special order item and only make a batch when they have enough orders. A used one just went on ebay for $184, so there is still demand.

As Outlaw's we should all know that you rob the stage coach after it leaves town, when it's far enough away from town that you can get away before they can go back and get the sheriff. That's the way it works, you just have to wait for the right moment to steal the deal.

Mean Mean Mean Gene

(Edited for a minor spelling issue)

When I looked into the 2 channel analogue aspect of the Onkyo and Integra, I could not pin the dealer/technician down on its analogue performance; he would always steer towards some other shining feature of the machine, would not give me a straight answer. Based on this, I would assume that the 2 channel analogue aspect of these machines is not one of their strengths. In any case, if this is something that's important to you, I'd try to audition it first and if that's not possible, I'd spend some significant time researching.

In reality, the pre/pro is just beginning to take off, there's more competition and a better understanding of what consumers want and so like a computer, I think the longer you can wait, the better off you will be.

And, I'm guessing the new Outlaw will address this issue; at least I hope so and look forward to its arrival.

John

Asking most home theater/audio sales guys for technical details on a product they sell is like asking a blind man how many fingers you are holding up.

Most of the people (like Gonk and others) here know way more than pretty much any salesperson you will meet.

In my experience, for most sales people, it's their job and not their passion, so other than learning the surface details about the products, they don't really go deeper than that.

Exceptions exist, but are not the norm.

I would expect that the Integra prepro will be pretty good at 2 channel, at least as good as the 990. It will be transparent. It will not make a crappy recording sound good and will not make a great recording sound crappy. Garbage in, garbage out, as they say. I'm basing this on my experiences with the 990 and my Integra Research RDC-7.1.

What we really need is a definitive answer as to whether or not it has an analog bypass, since then it is just passing the signal on. Even the 970 does a good job with analog bypass.

If they say that it is an analog bypass,it probably is just that. However, the signal still would be going through a heck of a lot of switching ICs, coupling capacitors, Op-Amps, and of course the digitally controlled volume control (which is analog, but controlled digitally).

A home theater preamp is never going to have as clean a signal path (i.e. fewer active stages, little or no solid state switching, little or no coupling capacitors)as a regular dedicated pure-analog stereo preamp.

They don't say anywhere that I have seen and so far we are only guessing that it "probably" has analog bypass.

I was told they're not better than the 990, for two channel, analogue mode, by someone else; but, beyond that, don't remember the details (which is why I didn't mention it). The first fellow was a retailer/installer, who dables in these things for himself, rotates through equipment via Audiogon (sold an Anthem D2).

Anyone serious about 2-channel music should be sure they know what they're getting before they buy in.

Also, if you're interested in surround modes, I think you still need to buy high-end to get the music algorithms outside of Dolby labs.

The 990 currently satisfies me and so I plan to wait it out (if you're patient and wise, I think this the best approach). In fact, I may even split the system in two and use my Zana Deux as a preamp for two channel, the 990 for everything else.

John

It has analog bypass, 2 modes in fact, which can be applied to most or all sources. To quote the manual:

"Direct - in this mode audio from the input source is output directly with minimal processing, providing high fidelity reproduction. All of the source's audio channels are output as they are."

My understanding from this is that speaker distance delay, and level settings are applied, and nothing else, no bass management, re-eq or anything else.

the other mode:

"Pure Audio - In this mode, the display and video circuitry are turned off, minimizing possible noise sources for the ultimate in high-fidelity audio reproduction. (As the video circuitry is turned off, only the HDMI outputs output video)."

This latter obviously disables the front display, which becomes active for about 2 seconds if you do a volume change.

As I said, I do not have any analog sources hooked up (besides a Dish SD DVR), but I can tell you my impressions with the digital sources. From eq'ed and BM'ed to direct, there is a definite and noticeable improvement in the quality, and I pretty much immediately notice when I have forgotten to put it in that mode, which is often as I am using the PS3 for so many different things. For pure mode, the difference is a little more subtle coming from plain direct. I can detect it pretty easily if I am playing back an SACD, but with CDs, it depends on the quality of the disc.

Note, I believe the Integra does NOT have the Pure audio mode as the Onkyo Pro does, it is one of the 3 differences between the units (rack ears, hinged front plate and pure mode all on the Onkyo Pro) that explain the $200 RP difference.

The manual states these modes can both be applied to the mch analog input, but is not clear if they are also applicable to the other 2 ch analog inputs. However, I am virtually certain they also work on those inputs, as the discussion at AVS indicates they do, and when I engage them for my Dish DVR, they do activate as opposed to giving a "not available" message.

Still, I would reiterate that at this point, I'd wait and see what the Outlaws have and give them a shot at your purchase. I have had mine for about 10 months now, as my system needed full HDMI capability to do what I wanted last year. If it had been a matter of two months, I would sure want to see how things compared.

BB

Oh, I will add that I was not impressed performance of my system when playing DVD-As through my Oppo 971H into the mch analog input of the Onkyo. However, since i never used the Oppo into my 950's mch input because it was dedicated to my older SACD player, I cannot say for certain if it is the Oppo's performance here or the Onkyo Pro's. If any of you are familiar with whether the 971 has passable analog outputs, that would help assign the "blame" and give us a data point.

BB

The 971H's multichannel analog output was something of an afterthought - even OPPO admitted taht pretty readily - so it may not be the best test of the processor's abilities since the 971H is contributing heavily to the overall sound.

If you are looking for DVD-A/SACD support with the 9.8 or Onkyo Pro 885, you might want to look at something like the 980H. At that point, you could even compare multichannel analog to HDMI digital (being sure to set the 980H's output resolution to at least 720p because of some bandwidth allocation foibles inherent in the HDMI spec). The 980H's analog output is a good bit better than the 971H's.

Thanks. I only have 3 DVD-As though, so I wasn't really looking to buy another component just to improve the quality on those. The PS3 does a stunning job on SACD.

So I guess I am not really in a position to comment on the analog bypass of the unit at the moment. If I have occasion to hook some other analog source into the unit in the next month or so I will post my impressions.

BB

Have not been on this thread for a while.
I definitely intend to hole on to my 990 until Outlaw shows' me there hand.
I went for a demonstration the other day listening to the Integra 9.8. The video processing was sharp and clear. The two channel stereo was not that bad either.
The video source was a Runnco. Of course the picture would be good to say the least. My video source is the Infocus 7205 and while I think that it displays a good picture it is hard to compare products when not side by side.
The two channel stereo sounded GREAT. The store set up a pair of B&W 804's which are the speaker that I have for my HT.
Still hard to compare between the 990 and the 9.8 when not side by side.

In conclusion as I said before I will hold up in the saloon until Outlaw releases the new 990. Then we will see who does the hanging.

PS If Integra is launching a new model in September...thereby releasing two models in less than a year...what do you think the chances are that Outlaw will at least give us a peek.

The 9.8 actually began shipping 13 months ago. They estimated demand would be equal to the previous flagship units.

Unfortunately, they failed to consider they were essentially first to market with the feature set and the new codecs, and they nearly immediately got as many preorders on the unit as they were expecting to sell over its year plus lifetime. Since the unit has one board which is handbuilt in Japan amongst its parts, they were rather behind the curve on shipping to meet demand, which is why it appears these things have only been delivering for 10 months or so. There was also a period of a few weeks last September where they stopped shipping to retool some firmware issues.

So really, the 9.9 is coming out about when it was supposed to.

BB

I'm just about install an 885 for my father. I'm upgrading his old system for him. I could compare the 990 to the 885 at some point.

His system should be pretty good. We've matched the 885 with D-Sonic 7 channel ICE amp. 3 M&K S-150's in the front 4 Polk Audio LC80FX's in-ceiling speakers in the sides and rear.

Rest of the system: Da-lite 130" 2:35.1, Panamorph UH480 Lens with ATH1 Transport, Planar PD-8150, URC MX3000/MRF350, Pioneer DP-51FD and a 42" LCD TV.

I'm waiting to see what Outlaw comes out with for myself. But would be happy to do a comparison in a couple weeks.

I have a friend who is interested in purchasing my 990 without the updated firmware. I am awaiting the entry of the new 990 and also feedback on it's capabilities. Pro...Integra or Onkyo we will see what the Outlaws hand us and that is why I am waiting.
My question is what would be a fair price for the 990. It is in excellant condition an in a non-smoking home.
I have seen two 990's on Audiogon that sold for $500 to $529. I was thinking that $400.00 would be fair since the person interested is a good friend.
I intend to wait for the new 990 as stated before and want to remain loyal to my fellow Outlaws so I am hoping that the new 990 is on this forum soon and gets good reviews for Audiophiles magazines.
Trying to have patience for the release of the new 990 but I wish Scott could jump in here to give us a peek or at least an idea as to when we fellow Outlaws will see the new leader of the gang.

I personally prefer to give to friends, and sell to strangers. If you can't handle giving it away to a friend then call it a long-term free loan instead. Makes life a lot less complicated and keeps friends friends.

Thanks for the response even though it was not the kind of response I was looking for.
I would love to give it away...but if I were to do that I would be giving it to my brother-in-law who appreciates HT and two channel stereo, and also he is not as fortunate as myself when it comes to having extra money for HT equipment.

In the past I have given him a Yamaha 100 watt receiver and a pair of Avance speakers which were all in perfect condition. Not to mention stands and a set of MIT cable.

I have no seconds thoughts about selling to a good friend. He knows Outlaws products and also knows that I kept excellent care of my equipment. Besides if the 990 were to break down within the first six months I would have no problem repairing it. Six months is more time than any store would allow and better than any warranty that I have seen on Audogon for used equipment.
Most of there equipment is purchased as is.

PS I was thinking of a price at around $400.00 since what I have seen on Audogon was $500 to $529.00

I think that's a fair price. I would do the same thing. Give to family and sell - for a good deal - to a friend.

Seems fair.
The five-year warranty is transferrable, so he'll still have whatever is left of the warranty (which has to be at least 20 months or so, since the very first 990's shipped in May 2005).

Thanks Retep and Gonk.

Thanks for reminding me of the warranty.

We may need to throw the new NAD T175HD into the mix?? Sounds as if it will come out in February? No way I am waiting that long though. Just read it on the cedia.net.

I figure CEDIA will be tossing some new names into the mix, but we'll have to see when they'll arrive. A "February 2009" date offered at CEDIA in September 2008 has the potential to end up being closer to "some time in Q2 2009" very easily.

There's a small preview of the 9.9 on Ultimate AV\'s CEDIA report .