I would like to hear your experiences in comparing external DAC's to those in the 990.

I'm thinking of funding either the 990 or the next Generation processor with the funds I can get from selling my Channel Islands VAC-1/VDA-2. Since I have not heard the 990 DAC's, I am wondering if anybody has experienced a direct comparison. Will I be taking a major step down for music??

My current set up:
Outlaw 7500 (amp)
NAD C162 (pre-amp)
Paradigm Studio 60's v.4
Squeezebox (SB3) + CI Power Supply + CI VDA-2/VAC-1
Entire music library in FLAC

Since I plan on using the funds from the sale of the VDA-2/VAC-1 combo, I am wondering of other's experiences. I'm ok if it is a small step down, but nervous that it will be drastic.

Any opinions??

I compared the 990 to a Benchmark DAC-1 and thought the DAC-1 was a little better in bass definition and soundstage. This was level matched, but not blind.

I've heard good things about the Channel Islands DAC, but have not actually listened to it.

I doubt it would be a big step down, but you might notice it a little in a direct comparison.

Ndskurfer,

I used to own both the 990 and the Channel Islands Audio VDA-2/VAC-1 combo and from what I can remember is that the CIA combo sounded much better than using the DACs within the 990. My digital source at the time was an Oppo DV-970HD and I use Magnepan IIIa speakers powered by a Parasound HCA-1205A power amp for your reference.

I've had a California Audio Labs Sigma-II Tube DAC for about 8 years until I got the 990 2 years ago. I did a direct comparison between using the Cal DAC + 990 in Analog Bypass and just the 990 in Digital Coax Upsample.
Between the two, I like the 990 in Upsample more than using the Cal DAC.
I ended up selling the DAC.

ndskurfer:

I held back posting a reply as I have the 970, not the 990, but the similarities in the rest of our digital front ends was just too much of a temptation. I realize this is not an apples to apples comparison, since we're talking two different Outlaw DAC platforms, so take this information as you wish:

I'm currently using a SB3 (streaming FLAC as well) that feeds a Behringer SRC2496, upsamples the digital stream, and passes it to my external DAC (a Musiland MD10).

I experimented with some comparisons to the internal DACS on the 970 and found that I prefer the external DAC solution. Before I had the Behringer in the mix, I A/B'd the Musiland vs. the 970 and preferred the Musiland. Before I had that set up, I compared the 970 to my CD player, a Cambridge Audio 640C, and I prefered the Cambridge.

I noticed FAUguy's comparison noted the benefits of upsampling, so that may be a key distinction in performance between the two platforms. You may also want to snoop over at the Slimdevices message boards and see if anyone over there is using a 990.

BTW, did the CI power supply make any difference in your SB3's performance?

Best,

- VD

Thanks for all your responses. I'm leaning on just keeping it and holding out with my upgrade on other components. I don't have a choice if I were to get the next gen processor anyways. But I'm readying myself as I am also hoping to pick up an SVS ultra sub and I need to replace my old center with either the studio 590 or 690 (leaning towards the 590 due to space).

Otto - I have looked around the web for direct comparisons from the Benchmark and CIAudio, but can't find much. I'm guessing they are comparable (especially with the added VAC-1). It would be interesting to see how they match up...

slbenz - Thanks for sharing. I may have to hang on to it and see what I find in the comparison. I may be testing it against the next gen processor though, but I don't anticipate that being much different for Stereo.

FAUguy - Very interesting.. I can't wait to do my own comparison now to my DAC. I really hope that there isn't much of a difference, could free up some funds....

Videodrome - Funny thing, I have not even tried my SB3 w/o the PS. I bought them together directly from CIAudio when they first released it this past winter. All I know is that I love the set up.

Come to think of it, since I got my Outlaw amp, I haven't tried my SB3 without the DAC. I know that Amps don't do the conversion, but that Amp was the one single upgrade that I have made over the years that blew me away. I was more impressed from that upgrade than the one I went from my Mini Monitors to my Studio 60's, but then again, I was using an old HK receiver at that time. I went from the HK Amp to a NAD Amp, which helped it fill the room, but the Outlaw 7500 took over the room.

I love this hobby - I thought my 5.1 Paradigm monitors were the best thing ever when I got them 6 years ago, but over a series of many upgrades (little by little), my system keeps blowing me away. It only gets better (but I really hope the case of upgrade-itis wheres off at some point).

Ndskurfer,

Check out my review on Epinions that compared the CIA VDA-2 with and without the VAC-1 to the Benchmark DAC1 and other DACs: http://www0.epinions.com/content_256272928388

Hope it helps.

Slbenz

Interesting review.
Which CAL Audio Labs DAC did you use (Sigma or Alpha)?
The one I had before was the Sigma-II, but found the "Upsample" on the 990 to sound better, so sold the DAC two years ago.

This week I have replaced my older B&W DM603 spekaers with the B&W 804S and HTM3S center. They are stil going through the "break in" process, but I have noticed that high-frequencies are sounding a bit too harsh when using the Upsample mode on the 990. Because of this, I have changed over to Bypass (even though it seems like there is less "detail" in doing so).

I might be interested in trying a new DAC since my new spekaers are much better quality and more revealing.

How much is the VDA-2 DAC by it self, and how much more is the upgraded VAC-1 power supply?

Today, after about 1 hour of listening to a CD today with my new B&W speakers and the 990 in Bypass mode, I changed over to Upsample.
With the new speakers, there is no way that I can use the Upsample any longer. It just sounds too harsh and digital.
I then put in LOTR DVD using the Dolby Digital track for about 30 min, then changed over to DTS.
I was amazed by how much better the DTS sounder over DD. Voices were noticeably clearer through the HTM3S center speaker.
With my old speakers, I could hear very little difference between DD and DTS.

With the 990 (2 years old), 7500 (replaced my 7125), and new B&W 804S / HTM3S speakers, I think the next step is
to look at upgrading the source and my cables.
I'm using an Adcom 5-disc CD player with a MIT Digital Reference RCA cable connected to the 990.
Would it be better to replace the CD player with something more high-end (using its own internal DAC), or keep
the Adcom and connect it an external DAC like the VDA-2?
I also want to replace my old MIT MI-330 RCA interconnects with a higher-end MIT XLR interconnects (Magnum or Oracle).
That should also make a noticeable improvement.

I just want to get everything done, so I can spend more time "enjoying" music and DVDs without having to
keep upgrading different stuff every few months.

slbenz -

Great review! Thanks for your insight. I have not done the analysis you have done. Now is tough, my system is in boxes and won't be unpacked till Labor Day (in transition of moving).

FAUguy - you can get the VDA-2 directly from their website for $599. Not sure on the price of the VAC-1, I think I paid around $180?? Is it worth it? I don't know, haven't ever used the wal-wart. I have the SB3 power supply as well. I like the idea of using an external DAC, but I'm using a FLAC transport (SB3) rather than a CD transport (Adcom). I have read many reviews where a DVD player (primarily OPPO) was used with the VDA-2 or Benchmark DAC-1 handling the decoding.

What's the better option?? I really have no idea, but I like what I'm hearing with the external DAC. If cost is a big driver, a good DAC should be able to take care of you.

Keep in mind - I was using an old JVC dvd player only for music up till less than a year ago, so my experience is an extreme improvement.

My question is how does the VDA-2 external DAC stack-up to the 990's DAC (in bypass mode)?

I don't have an answer. I think slbenz review gives us a great indication of the capabilities of the DAC in his set up. Hopefully I can run a comparison once I jump on an Outlaw Pre/Pro in the coming months.

Sorry for the delay in replying. Haven't checked out the Outlaw forum recently. To answer your question, I think the CAL DAC my friend let me use for the comparison was a Sigma. It was about ten years old is what my friend said. The CIA VDA-2 can be purchased at $599 and the upgraded VAC-1 is a worthwhile investment. It adds more punch to bass and extends the mids and highs without any harshness. To compare the CIA combo to the 990's internal DACs is an unfair comparison and is why I always ran the 990 in bypass mode. The CIA's DACs are the very finest from TI and are found in top-end players like the $6000 Ayre SACD player. I found that having the upsampling mode on the 990 added harshness and lost some of the detail and punch to the music vs. bypassing and using the CIA DAC alone. This is to be expected especially since the CIA combo and an upgrade power cord can equal or exceed the cost of a 990. Hope this helps and sorry for the delay in response.

Thanks for the info.

Since I got my new B&W 804S speakers a few weeks back, I've been runing the 990 in Bypass mode, as the Upsample was sounding to "harsh" in the upper frequencies.

I've been debating on geting the Channal Islands VDA2/VAC1 to use with my Adcom CD charger (about 9 years old), or to replace the Adcom with a higher-end CD/SACD player (such as the Marantz SA-11S2).

Buying the VDA2/VAC1 would cost less, and I can keep the convience of a 5-disc changer. I'm just wondering how it would sound compared to the Marantz player.