Yes, Outlaw presumably falling into the "small manufacturer" camp.

I know it's little solace to those who have had buggy 990s or 970s (like me), but the notion that Outlaw knowingly released a product they knew had problems and/or did not have confidence in, is neither fair nor accurate. And that notion has been floated in the saloon before.

I think that's made them a little gun shy with release of the next generation of processors (that, and the chip problems), but there's no guarantee these will be glitch free either.

I strongly believe that once your interest in the audio / HT hobby reaches a certain level, and with it, your system becomes more sophisticated and performance focused, you're getting outside the plug and play realm and into a more maintenance intensive system that has greater potential to "act up," if you will.

At least, that's been my own observation over the years. My first system (Technics) was probably the simplest and lowest maintenance gear I ever owned. But certainly not the best sounding, by a long shot.

To the question of beta test, I'd like to throw in two thoughts:

First, the idea of "widespread beta testing" in the software world is somewhat simpler from a cost standpoint since the actual materials cost of each beta copy is virtually nil -- if the software is distirbuted electronically, it's "bandwidth to download" cost only. Compare that with the cost of shipping heavy pieces of hardware that, even at cost, are expensive to testers and you see where the limitation will creep up on you quickly.And, unlike in software, the early pre-production samples an electronics manufacturer uses are often not "off-tool", and are thus MORE costly than release product.

Beyond that, I don't recall exactly, but I do seemto remember that the Outlaws did beta test the 990 and 1070/970 with external users, and given all the controversy at the time, I KNOW that the did external testing with the 950. One has to presume that they took the results of those tests to heart.

Since I own both I'll throw in my $0.02 . I owned a 950 (along with a 770 and cables)for 62 months when it became non functioning. I had been having issues with the unit resetting all parameters to the factory default every time the power blipped. When the unit was new it happened very infrequently but as the years went by it seemed to happen almost weekly. Outlaw services response was that "It is not uncommon for the 950 to behave that way". Shortly there after the IR stopped working, still usable but try setting all the parameters through the front panel ...... not fun.

I thought about buying a 990 as a replacement but I couldn't get over the fact that the 950 was dying after only 5 years. Given the fact I paid over $900 5 years ago I couldn't bring myself to throw more money at it for a repair. I needed something and wasn't feeling much love for Outlaw at the time so I decided to give the Emotiva MMC-1 a 30 day try ..... zero regrets.

I do make comparisons between any of these units and my trusty JVC receiver that I bought in '81. It has been in the garage for over 20 years, temperature swings from 0 to 100 degrees throughout the year and has never failed to deliver.

I personally don't draw any parallels between company size and quality of product. I consider the 770 a very high quality product but the 950 not so much anymore. As for the MMC-1 only time will tell.

J Wags,
Yes, Outlaw is worth it.

You don’t hear about the ‘Rotels’ unless it is involved w/ a review. Why would you want to test/listen to a product if it is given a bad review or has problems w/ user interface? Even then – is the sample sent for review a production unit?

With Outlaw and other Internet based companies w/ forums– you can search responses about there equipment. Read comment from people you would have otherwise never heard from.
My experience with this forum – it is pretty open and honest.

This is an interesting thread…..

I answer to you ½ way around the world. I am visiting a subcontractor that manufactures parts for my employer.
I’m in Taiwan.
So I see first hand what quality is and can be. There are many factors that play into the quality.
Suppler choice, in part, is driven by cost. Outlaw could find another supplier or turn up the specifications requirements on the current supplier – which would be followed by a price increase.

There where post about made in America. People…. Smell some coffee and wake up. Don’t assume if it was made in the USA it will be better. Last time I checked – Kazan is not American – and yet every major manufacturer in the US has used it in there quality department at some time the last 20 years. Where did it come from – Toyota and Japan.

A little cultural deviation.... i was having a conversation with the divisional manager in one of our pacific rim facilities. to quote, " You Americans and Europeans can design the crap out of anything.... not us Asians - there are a few exceptions. But it is not in our blood. Now give us a process or a product and we will produce almost 100% efficiency and reliability, we will kick your butts....it in our culture."


Could somebody tell me where to purchase an American made TV? The closest you can find is ‘Made in Mexico.’

My question is what would all of us do if Outlaw was not available – did not exist?

If you had issues w/ your Denon, Bryston, Sony, B&W speakers or what ever – what would you do?

How do you know if a fellow customer of brand x (traditional brick and mortar) – who purchased the same item in Canada or the other side of the country or even across town had the same issue as you?

I agree the equipment should work as advertised. If it dose not – return it. If you are still un-happy take your money and go some where else.

With-in my family and several friends of my brothers – there are 14 pieces of outlaw products: 1 receiver with known bug. There are 3 - 990’s and various amps, etc. No issues.

J Wags…. Let me reel you in out of the dark and cold. Outlaw is a viable choice in gear. Is it the only one …… NO.
For a little perspective – even Canon and Nikon have issues with there $1000+ SLR’s. I had to do some digging – but I found Canon cameras w/ dirty or less 100% working CMOS sensors issues (20D – before it was retired/replaced by 30D).
I still purchased a Canon 20D and it travels w/ me around the world to this day.

I feel relieved when I purchase a product and find it was made in Taiwan and not China.
For the money, Japan produced some great recievers during the 60-80's. I still use a Pioneer reciever built 1979 with no issues. I had, up till 2 years back, had a Sansui AU1100 that finally gave me some problems. It took 29 years for a problem to surface .
Japan was not making best the recievers in the 60-80's, they were making a good product at a reduced price.
I don't see that in "Made in China".

Great post, tmdlp. The conversation you mentioned is pretty interesting, too.