I've been away from the boards for a while - it's good to be back.

I'm about to pick up a Playstation 3 (90% HT, 10% gaming, for now at least). To be honest, I really just want to watch/listen to the Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds concert on BluRay, which I hear is fantastic.

My question is regarding the PS3 Audio combined with the 990. Is my best [only?] bet just optical? What am I missing as a result of the HD formats that the 990 can't/doesn't handle via optical.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

That's a great Blu-ray. Need to listen to it again soon (picture quality is amazing as well). I listened to the DD core track from the TrueHD the first time (using a Panasonic BD30) but didn't realize until afterward that the PCM track is PCM stereo and thus can be accessed via optical.

With the 990, optical is the only way to go for the PS3. I don't know how the PS3 handles DD+, TrueHD, and multichannel PCM tracks with the optical. I suspect that the DD+ and TrueHD just get the DD core (which I am pretty sure is 640k Dolby Digital, a step up from the typical compression levels used with DVD's), and multichannel PCM may get downmixed to stereo.

Thanks for the quick reply Gonk - we can always count on you to be around with great insight.

I think that's what I'll do for now...until Outlaw comes out with their next pre/pro with HDMI switching and support for all of the new formats...

If anyone is interested, the audio details for the PS3 can be found at the following link: http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/PS3/Manuals

Click 'User Guide' (accept) 'Settings' 'Sound Settings' 'Audio Output Settings'

To be honest, I'm not at all familiar with the new 'HD' formats, but I don't even see them in the user guide. If anyone more experienced than myself can recommend the best format for the 990, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks again.

I couldn't find anything in the manual for "Audio Output Settings" under "Settings" and "Sound Settings." There is some stuff under "BD / DVD Settings" that would seem to be relevant (particularly the last setting, BD Audio Output Format (Optical Digital)). Unfortunately, the manual's explanation of this setting is underwhelming. The choices are bitstream and LPCM, and I'd expect bitstream to be the desired solution as LPCM over optical will be restricted to two channel due to bandwidth limitations, but it's not quite clear what will happen for every case.

My understanding is that the PS3 decodes Dolby TrueHD (and, with an upcoming firmware update, DTS-HD MA) to multichannel PCM and passes it via HDMI to an external device. It CANNOT pass the raw bitstream for external decoding.

If you're using the optical audio out, you're going to get only standard Dolby Digital.

If you're going with Blu-ray for improved audio (and you don't have a receiver/preamp that accepts HDMI audio), the PS3 probably isn't the most flexible solution (even though it is the most future-proof Blu-ray player).

You might want to wait for the Panasonic BD50 (announced at CES) which will pretty much do it all when it arrives.

Hi Gonk,
Thanks again for looking.

Do you mean you couldn't find any information in that section or couldn't find the actual section? The path is : Settings > Sound Settings > Audio Output Settings. Make sure you're looking at the 'User's Guide' and not the 'Quick Reference.'

I wish I could post a link or attachment, but it won't work in this case. There are a bunch of charts and screenshots there too, so I can't copy and paste much.

Here are some of the notes at the end of the section:

Hints
[Linear PCM 2 Ch.] audio is set to be output from all output connectors by default. If you change the audio output settings, audio will be output only from the connectors that were set.
If you change the audio output settings, the system will no longer be able to output audio from multiple output connectors at the same time. For example, if your system is connected to a TV via an HDMI cable and to an audio device via a digital optical cable and you switch to [Digital Out (Optical)] under [Audio Output Settings], audio will no longer be output from the TV. To output audio from the TV, switch the setting to [HDMI].
If you select [Linear PCM 2 Ch. 88.2 kHz] or [Linear PCM 2 Ch. 176.4 kHz] in step 5, sound may be intermittent or may not be emitted from some audio devices.
When using an HDMI cable, only [Linear PCM 2 Ch.] audio will be output from PlayStation®2 and PlayStation® format software. To output Dolby Digital or DTS audio, you must connect the PS3™ system and the audio device using a digital optical cable and switch to [Digital Out (Optical)] under [Audio Output Settings].
If a device that is not compatible with the HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) standard is connected to the system using an HDMI cable, video and/or audio cannot be output from the system.

I'm looking at the user's guide right now (not the quick reference), and still don't see that under Sound Settings. Don't know where I'm going astray on Sony's site. (I guess a PDF file would be too darn easy...) Interesting coincidence of the day, though - I was looking at a printed copy of this same information with a co-worker earlier today. The documentation doesn't seem very clear to me (or even somewhat clear, for that matter), but here's the best bet that I can offer.

Most of these options really relate to what the PS3 will do with audio sent via its HDMI output. When dealing with that output, you have a wide array of options: different sampling rates for PCM, two-channel or multichannel PCM (either taken straight from a Blu-ray's PCM track or decoded from basically any other DVD, Blu-ray, or SACD source), or raw DD and DTS bitstreams. Hence the laundry list of formats.

That all chagnes when you take HDMI v1.1 audio out of the equation (and despite the PS3's v1.3 support, the audio is basically limited to what v1.1 could do - no DSD, DD+, TrueHD, or DTS-HD bitstream output). Once you are looking just at analog stereo and optical, there are only a few choices - and they relate to whether you have the optical output set to "bitstream" or "PCM." If you set it to "PCM" you will get the same thing (aside from some possible variation in sampling rate) for every situation: stereo. It will decode Dolby Digital, DTS, DD+, TrueHD, and SACD's DSD and downmix to stereo PCM, as when working with PCM and optical or coaxial digital audio connections, you only get two channels. If you set it to "bitstream" you will get a few things. First, traditional Dolby Digital and DTS tracks (either from DVD's or BD's) and PCM stereo (either from CD's or some DVD's and BD's) will pass unaltered by the PS3. Second, DD+ tracks will output the core DD track contained within the DD+ track. Third, TrueHD tracks will most likely do nothing at all, as I've read something recently that suggests that TrueHD doesn't have any sort of legacy track like DD+ and DTS-HD do. They may be decoded, downmixed to stereo, and output as PCM stereo, but there's nothing actually saying as much. Lastly, multichannel PCM tracks presumably would be downmixed to stereo and output as PCM stereo.

From the Dolby.com site on TrueHD:

If your A/V receiver or processor has neither multichannel analog or digital inputs, but is equipped with 5.1-channel Dolby® Digital decoding and playback, you will still be able to enjoy 5.1-channel performance from next-generation optical players. Included within 7.1-channel multichannel Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD streams is a core 5.1 mix prepared by the content maker that is used when the player is set for 5.1-channel mode. After playback audio signals have been mixed in the player, the PCM signal can be encoded to a Dolby Digital signal and output from the player via S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) to your connected Dolby Digital A/V receiver or processor.

I have tried TrueHD tracks, and the 990 shows them as Dolby Digital from my Panny BD10.

OK, that's good - I'd been following a debate at AVS about the BD30, and some early comments by Roger Dressler indicated that TrueHD might not have a core DD track. As that discussion has continued, it has come back around to something like what you quoted.

Shane Martin, a moderator at Home Theater Lounge, has posted a rather good explanation of the available audio formats:

http://hometheaterlounge.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=5589

Well, not "standard" DD, you do get a higher bit rate core which sounds noticeably better. And you can do 2 ch PCM over optical which sounds pretty nice, just loses the surround channels.

When I was using my outlaw 950 with my PS3, the improvement even in DD with the higher bit rate core file on Blu-ray was pretty decent (had a few titles to compare, like Cars).

And then when you step up to an HDMI pre/pro, you get another decent bump in quality.

BB

Edit : how do you post pictures here?

Gonk, try these sites for the PS3 info I was referring to...

http://screencast.com/t/zGaLqZnR

http://screencast.com/t/VTZt30OcQ

Cheers

I have played around briefly with the audio from the PS3 for the Dave Matthews Band Blu Ray disc that I have. I currently only have 3 LCRs set up. Pro Logic sends much more of the sound through the Center channel, vocals sound stronger. Overall volume seems higher (tick for tick, that is). Dolby Digital sends more audio to the LR and less to the center. Vocals aren't as pronounced and overall volume decreases...

Sorry if I missed it above;

When hoking up a PS3 to the 990 via optical cable, should the audio setting on the PS3 be "bitstream" or "PCM"?

Will any future software updates to the PS3 be able to change the audio output to allow RAW output via optical or is this a hardware limitation?

I'd recommend "bitstream"
Optical digital output can already handle raw output of the formats which are compatible with SPDIF: namely, Dolby Digital and DTS. Optical does not have the bandwidth to handle the HD audio formats or multichannel PCM.

I never did get back to this post... Here are a few thoughts.

Screenshot 1: This is addressing the three options for audio output from the PS3. You must choose whether the HDMI output, the optical output, or the stereo analog output handles audio. Only one can be active at a time. The chart offers a rudimentary description of the limitations of each, although it obviously isn't terribly detailed. When used with a 990, the decision is simple: use the optical.

Screenshot 2: This one will be affected by which choice was made previously. For the case of an optical output, you can't pick any multichannel PCM signal. You should select Dolby Digital and DTS so that it will output those signals as undecoded bitstream when they are available (both with DVD's and Blu-rays).

Thanks again Gonk

Can't wait until Outlaw comes out with the 990's replacement...

I went back and checked the settings on my PS3. There are 2 places where you enter audio output settings - one in the general audio setup (where you select the types of audio formats your receiver can accept - I checked all of these off) and another one that is specific for blu-ray playback. This second one is either bitstream or PCM. By default, mine was set to PCM.

I changed this to bitstream but did not notice any difference when listening afterward. When I toggle formats on the disc, the 990 receives either Dolby Digital or Dolby PCM Pro Logic II (just like before when the PS3 was set to PCM), which kind of confuses me.

In any case, my audio description of these 2 formats is above. The main difference is that PCM PLII is heavily biased through the center speaker and, tick for tick, is much louder.

Still kind of scratching my head...I think I just need to forget about it and enjoy the music, but I want to make sure I'm getting the best sound possible given my setup.

Cheers.

Just purchased a ps3 and having a bit of trouble. I have the hdmi and optical routed. When "default" sound is routed via the HDMI I get sound thru the TV. However when I select optical along with Dolby, dts, linear pcm 44.1 and 48, I get no sound through the 990. I have the ps3 connected via the optical 4 input to the 990. Am getting a picture no problem. Does anyone have any suggestions?

never mind my last post, i found the problem. Somehow I had inadvertently hit the mute button while getting everything set up and connected. Feeling a kind of dumb for awhile.