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#67233 - 01/03/08 10:47 PM 720/1080p over component
openhelix Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 107
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
The 990 manual seems to state it can pass any signal over component video. Specifically it says "unlimited/high bandwidth" and "HD capable". Does anyone know for sure they can pass 720p, 1080i and 1080p?

Strangely the manual says this about the component inputs:
"Component video inputs (see pages 16, 20)
Use these three sets of jacks to connect devices with component video outputs, such as a DVD player or a digital TV tuner. If the device has a DVI or HDMI output, use that connection instead."
Why would Outlaw prefer you use HDMI/DVI? the only benefit would seem to be audio over the same cable which the 990 doesn't support anyway. Am I missing something?

I've noticed I'm getting some video anomalies using HDMI. I think the issue lies in my source equipment not the 990, but before I pull everything out and replace the HDMI to DVI cables with component I was hoping someone had some empirical data that this works.

Thanks!!

(edit for adding email notification)

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#67234 - 01/03/08 11:02 PM Re: 720/1080p over component
BloggingITGuy Offline
Desperado

Registered: 02/20/06
Posts: 446
Loc: Beaverton, Oregon
As far as I know, component is not capable of handling 1080P.

Whether you use HDMI vs component depends somewhat on equipment. For instance on cable/TV boxes, you are usually better off using component as cable boxes (including the Motorola that Verizon uses for its Fios TV fiber over TV service) are horrible at properly handshaking with TVs over HDMI.

On the other hand when using an upconverting DVD player, Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player, you should use HDMI. The Oppo players for instance pass much higher quality video over HDMI vs component (for the older models that still have component out).

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#67235 - 01/03/08 11:07 PM Re: 720/1080p over component
openhelix Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 107
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
BloggingITGuy, you said no 1080P. Then fair to say it will do 720P and 1080i?

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#67236 - 01/03/08 11:09 PM Re: 720/1080p over component
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I know that both component and DVI will pass 720p and 1080i because I've done with both. DVI should also pass 1080p just fine, and while in theory 1080p via component is feasible you run into the problem of practicality. The only 1080p component source I know of is the Xbox360, and the only way to display 1080p via that output that I ever heard of was a VGA connection - the component inputs of HDTV's pretty much universally are limited to 1080i input.

I'd wager that they are recommending DVI/HDMI for HD video sources because almost all HD displays today are digital devices, particularly when it comes to displays with a DVI or HDMI input (my trusty CRT HDTV is something of a freak of nature in this regard). As a result, keeping the video in the digital domain from source (DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-ray, cable/satellite, etc) to the display (DLP, LCD, LCoS, etc) makes a lot of sense.

IF you are getting anomalies with HDMI, I'd check the cables first. HDMI retains DVI's cable length limitation (a restriction that didn't matter a bit for desktop PC's but starts to be a bit mroe of an issue when you get into home theater setups), and that restriction often shows up as white "sparklies" or other artifacts in the image. Add up what the overall length of DVI and HDMI cable is from source to display. Also, you can get bad cables from time to time and replacing the cable can fix matters. That could be tested by swapping cables around a bit to see which cable the problems follow.
_________________________
gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#67237 - 01/03/08 11:10 PM Re: 720/1080p over component
BloggingITGuy Offline
Desperado

Registered: 02/20/06
Posts: 446
Loc: Beaverton, Oregon
Yup, component is perfectly capable of doing 720p and 1080i, just not 1080p.

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#67238 - 01/03/08 11:14 PM Re: 720/1080p over component
psyprof1 Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 443
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Re handshaking, my Scientific Atlanta cable box's HDMI connection to my Panasonic 42" plasma TV has never shown any problems. Cable service is Cox. With only one HDMI device there seemed no point to putting the 990 in the video line (two HDMI-DVI cables needed) though I did try it at first and saw no problems. But my stuff is 720p so I don't know if there would be problems with 1080.

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#67239 - 01/03/08 11:15 PM Re: 720/1080p over component
BloggingITGuy Offline
Desperado

Registered: 02/20/06
Posts: 446
Loc: Beaverton, Oregon
Well and even that has to be explained a bit.

Normally, when we talk about 720p we mean 720p at 60 frames per second. 1080i normally means 1080i at 30 frames (60 fields or half frames) per second and 1080p typically means 1080p at 60 frames per second.

However, there are other types that could theoretically be sent over component, such as 1080p at 24 or 30 frames per second. Component should have enough bandwidth for both of those.

When we talk about broadcast TV it should also be mentioned that 1080p does not exist as a broadcast standard. 1080p only is possible when using computer equipment, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray or other equipment capable of passing the signal.

To repeat that, 1080p cannot currently be handled by any HD-TV medium, whether it be satellite, cable, etc. at least as far as I know. It is not really part of the HD-TV spec.

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#67240 - 01/03/08 11:18 PM Re: 720/1080p over component
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Quote:
Originally posted by BloggingITGuy:
On the other hand when using an upconverting DVD player, Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player, you should use HDMI. The Oppo players for instance pass much higher quality video over HDMI vs component (for the older models that still have component out).
This is a good point - upconversion of DVD content is generally restricted to DVI/HDMI output (component being capped at 480p). Some older players ignored this, but those players have disappeared. HD-DVD and Blu-ray players will output at 1080i as long as no studios start using the ICT on new releases (the Image Constraint Token would force players to scale the image down to a quarter of the full resolution for component output when set for a specific title).
_________________________
gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#67241 - 01/03/08 11:19 PM Re: 720/1080p over component
openhelix Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 107
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
I'm getting occasional jaggies and black lines one the bottom half of the screen, almost like bad interlacing, from my DirecTivo (capable only of 720P/1080i) to my 990 to my TV (Pioneer 50" plasma) over HDMI-DVI and DVI-HDMI. It's not all the time by any stretch, but I can recreate it with any white or light background. It's almost constant watching hockey for instance. The black lines on the bottom half sometimes look like a jagged "ghost" of the top half of the screen, like an interlaced overlay. This happens in both 720P and 1080i. Native resolution of the screen is 1368x768.

I would say it's the display but I can watch DVDs of hockey (or anything else) all day and always have a perfect picture. I can also hook up my DirecTivo to another display (Panasonic 50" plasma) over HDMI and not see any anomalies.

The cables check out fine on other screens and I've swapped through multiple brands all with the same issue. Cable length is 2 3' lengths. 3' from DirectTivo to 990 and 3' from 990 to TV.

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#67242 - 01/03/08 11:30 PM Re: 720/1080p over component
BloggingITGuy Offline
Desperado

Registered: 02/20/06
Posts: 446
Loc: Beaverton, Oregon
That's interesting. I'm not sure what part of the DVI switching process in the 990 would be able to cause artifacts like that. Since it's doing simple switching between the two DVI ports to the output, you'd think it would be pretty clean, but that doesn't mean it will be perfect, I suppose.

Are you using DVI to HDMI converters or DVI to HDMI cables?

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