Well, it would seem whatever the Outlaws cook up to replace the 990 a bit down the road has a benchmark to match features and price against. The Integra DTC 9.8/Onkyo Pro 885.

It's got everything I was waiting for in a pre=pro at a price only a bit north of what I would have expected from Outlaw. Any hint of something from the boys to wait and compare against in the next few months?

No word from Outlaw, and I continue to guess that it'll be early next year before they say more than "we're working toward HDMI v1.3." It's still early yet - Onkyo was the first out of the gate, and even the big names are just catching up (by which I mean Pioneer, Sony, and the like, not to mention companies like Denon that also have a lot more R&D resources to throw at the new generation).

I fully understand what Brandon B is saying, I've been tossing the idea around about purchasing the DTC 9.8 and using the unit until Outlaw comes out with a new pre/pro. So far all the reviews I've been reading have stated the 9.8 is the pre/pro to beat.

I wrote the post below and was about to post it, but decided to add something to the start. Like grimster, I've seem some very positive information about the 9.8, which leads me to suspect that it is a very good product even without taking into account it's early arrival (as compared to most everybody else) in the market. The musings that follow aren't meant to detract from the 9.8 at all.

The 9.8's feature set is definitely a good point to aim for and is likely to drive some very nice sales numbers for Integra, but it has also caused me to start wondering just how significant the feature-set shift is going to be in this next generation.

This next generation seems to be primarily thought of by many as the "HDMI generation." HDMI v1.3 (the first version that many manufacturers felt comfortable embracing on a large scale) is the driving force behind that, of course. But the new generation of DSP chips appear to be offering a lot of other things as a result of the new horsepower (brought about by probably a combination of the need to support the new audio formats and the inevitability of Moore's Law) and the notion of video processing has started to take off. The result seems to be that these "HDMI generation" products are also consistently offering various flavors of auto-setup and auto-EQ (something that's been happening steadily for several years now, of course, thanks in large part to Audyssey), and they are using one of the numerous video processing chips (Genesis Faroudja, Silicon Optix's HQV Reon and Realta, ABT's stuff, ...) to incorporate much more sophisticated video processing than we're used to. Ironically, the HDMI v1.3 that everyone has clamored for has yet to be truly put to the test, as we still lack any sources that can use v1.3's bitstream support for TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio or any sources or displays that can make use of the greater video bandwidth.

As things stand right now, the 9.8 has a very potent feature set for its price, and I certainly wouldn't argue against it as a good choice for a processor. If we evaluate the situation again in six months or so, though, I wonder if the 9.8 will seem to have set the bar for features or whether it will have instead been the first to jump a bar that was already set by other factors. In other words, I wonder if Outlaw, Rotel, Adcom, NAD, and the rest aren't already developing products with just this sort of mix of capabilities at price points just as aggressive (relative to performance and companies' target markets) as the 9.8's.

Yeah, 2008 could be pretty darned interesting...

I was given the ok from my wife to purchase the 9.8. I opted to try the 990 first. After unpacking the 990 and listening to it, I could not send it back and spend an additional $700.00.
I never listened to the 9.8, but the audio qualities of the 990 and it's build quality were more than I've experienced in my 52 years.
I know I'm probaly missing something!

KJ

I wouldn't say your missing anything, lthough list on the Integra is $1600, and street price seems to be a couple hundred less. Conversely, I didn't realize the 990 had dropped to $999.

But more importantly, unless you've had an order in on a 9.8 for a bit, you likely won't be able to get your hands on one until mid October at the earliest. They are sold out and backordered.

Understand your point too, Gonk. The crowd discussing the Integra has sort of ripped it a new one for disabling the customization menu for the Reon video chip, especially since the menu IS available on one of the Onkyo receivers with similar features. So beefier video processing options would certainly set a competitor apart.

I am just chafing at the bit somewhat as I am still using my FIRST BATCH 950, and I am good and ready for an upgrade that will let me hear the lossless tracks on my blu-rays.

BB

- I can certainly imagine how the upgrade bug could be gnawing at you pretty hard. Using a PS3 as your Blu-ray player, I take it?

Let us know when you upgrade?
KJ
"I am just chafing at the bit somewhat as I am still using my FIRST BATCH 950, and I am good and ready for an upgrade that will let me hear the lossless tracks on my blu-rays.

BB "

Yup. PS3 for Blu ray and games. As soon as I have an HDMI pre pro I will also start using it for SACD and CD as well, and move my old SCP555ES into my other system.

BB

I hate to say it but if I had to get new gear today I'd be looking hard at the Emotiva stuff. It's a lot like Outlaw gear except it's (gasp) pretty.

Emotiva is also working on HDMI v1.3 gear, but I have my worries about them. They look a good bit flasher than Outlaw's stuff (although I don't care for the MMC-1's front panel design), but the one processor product they developed in-house (the LMC-1, which unlike the DMC-1 and MMC-1 isn't derived from the Sunfire Theater Grand IV) has been plagued by some pretty major problems. First there was Pro Logic II/IIx, which was intentionally implemented in an incomplete manner and only fixed after a lengthy uproar (although the fix in turn breaks the bass management in a way that is still not officially documented over a year after the revision was put into production). Then there was a DTS-ES bug that was initially passed off as the only "correct" DTS-ES implementation on the market before later being acknowledged as a bug. Alongside those and a few other bugs, there was a design decision to omit per-input surround mode memory, and the firmware update dongle that was promised back in March or April (as a substitute for returning your unit to the manufacturer for firmware updates) has still not been shipped because of various delays. It'd be good to see some extra internet-direct competition in the surround processor market, but Emotiva has some work left to do before they can earn my trust after the LMC-1's problems.

I was looking at the DMC-1 and the amplifiers, but it'll be a while yet - still getting the workshop ready. For the moment I'm making do with a 3.1 system in the family room. Sigh.

I like the SUnfire stuff, no wonder I liked Emotiva, I should have noticed the similar feature set what w/ the 9.1 support.

Gonk,
What do you think of Emotiva amps ( MPS-1)? Would that be a good match with the 990?

The MPS-1 has gotten good reviews, and there's no reason it shouldn't fine work just fine with the 990. There was an issue last spring where it would go into protect mode and shut down when driving some 4-ohm loads that I don't recall ever hearing of a resolution to.

I was more looking at a DMC-1 and maybe 3 of the LPA-1 amps for my CHT 2.0 project.

Is there any good writeup on the Emotiva bass management? This is one area where Outlaw has earned it's place via the school of forum knocks I think.

The DMC-1's bass management is not as robust as what Outlaw's taken to offering. Adjustable crossovers, but I think just for the fronts and then everything else - according to my SSP chart , there are two crossovers implemented.