I've been trying real hard to get up to speed on all the new audio format terminology. I went through a bunch of threads over on the AVS forum and it's just a confusing mess. Not only are there lots of formats...but how they are cabled is changing...and trying to determine which equipment provides the best sound is almost impossible! I just don't see how an ordinary consumer can make informed choices.

Let's just assume that audio (which is why I'm posting this to all you Outlaw fans) is as important as picture quality in a home theater.

formats:
1.UNCOMPRESSED PCM seems to be the current "best" possible audio output on Blu Ray players. Cabling is via multi channel analog - but will soon go to hdmi 1.3?
2. Both Dolby and DTS will each have "high-def" audio but as I understand it ... this technology is not yet available. Proposed cabling is via hdmi 1.3 (but will there be a multi-channel analog capability?).
3. Of course, the old standby Dolby and DTS currently use optical cabling. Will this fade out of existence?
4. SACD (which I prefer over DVD-A) ordinarily is cabled via analog but in a few rare instances can use iLink. What does the future hold? I've seen some discussion that it is going to eventually use hdmi 1.3.
5. Ordinary CDs played via a DVD player can use optical out and can be "re-processed" by the preamp for multichannel. Some players even "upconvert" ordinary CDs.

Did I get the formats and cabling correct? If yes...then continue...

The advantage to hdmi 1.3 (even after having read Gonk's narrative) are twofold: (1) the most obvious is the elimination of various types of cables (analog, optical, etc). and (2) eliminates the dvd player from any audio responsibilities. The player simply decodes the digital audio and passes it along (in the digital domain via hdmi 1.3) to the preamp. The preamp will do all the work of converting it to analog for the amp.

Now, I like this hdmi concept...because...I can't even begin to try and figure out which format...and which cable...and which configuration will give me the best possible audio signal. By reducing the DVD player's responsibilities to simply becoming a "digital" transport system to the preamp...I've eliminated a bunch of cables for different formats and have eliminated the player from any confugration issues.

Having said all that...I understand Gonk's concerns regarding hdmi. It simply may not work as intended. But, somehow and someway...there has to be a bullet proof method of getting the digital audio information over to the preamp and let the preamp do all the heavy lifting for audio.

thanks for listening...marcus

Formatiphobia: The fear of industry-induced format mayhem...

Blu-ray does use uncompressed PCM, but that usage will fade (is already fading) because this was done solely in reaction to the dreadful lack of onboard decoding in the first generation of players. There are three new processing modes that can be offered on Blu-ray and HD-DVD: Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD (either plain HD or HD Master Audio). All three can be output in a few different ways: decoded internally by the player and output via multichannel analog, decoded internally by the player and output as multichannel PCM via HDMI v1.1 or higher, and output as a raw bitstream via HDMI v1.3. Of those three, all but DTS-HD Master Audio can be decoded by at least some existing players. At present, all HD-DVD's are mastered in such a way that they must be decoded internally by the player, so that third option isn't really an option with those discs. HDMI v1.3 is not required for these formats.

Traditional Dolby Digital and DTS can be passed via HDMI, but it works exactly the same way that it does over optical or coaxial digital audio cables. The same is true of PCM stereo from CD's.

SACD can be passed via a couple digital connections: IEEE-1394 (also called FireWire and iLink), a couple proprietary formats like DenonLINK, and HDMI v1.2 or higher. There are some players that will convert the DSD bitstream to multichannel PCM and push it over HDMI v1.1 connections.

The formats and cabeling schemes are getting a bit rediculous, especially since they are proving to be so short lived.
My plan for coping is to stick with my current processor as long as I'm satisfied with it,hold off on new source components until a really high quality "temperorarily universal" player is available ,as I have with SACD/DVD/DVD-A/CD,and trust to 7.1 Analog to get the signal to my procesor possibly with the help of a audio/video switcher or converter as my TV's ability to handel all all video signals is likely to become obsolete as well and the 990 only has one 7.1 in.
A few days ago I ran into a refrence to 1440p (I think) video. Lord knows what that will entail.
IMHO having to re-tool every couple of years is a little bit silly.
I'm revealing my age, but I enjoyed the 20 or 30 years when everyone kept trying to do a better job with analog stereo a lot more than the current format-of-the-month drill.
I may change my handel from Koyaan to crudmudgen.

Thanks for sharing my frustration! When audiophiles get confused...what's an ordinary consumer to do? I agree...we'll just have to wait out all the confusion.

marcus

Yeah... as I said here , I think that the mess with HDMI (both as it relates to the new HD formats and just in general by itself) is bad enough that options like cowering in the corner or running screaming from the room really have some merit. It's a real mess, and the combination of format war, changing standards, and widespread misinformation is a significant disservice to the typical consumer.

Hello again! Yeah, I chuckled over your hdmi "mess" article. I guess the bottom line is that we're stuck with whatever technology we elect to purchase.

For me: SACD or UNCOMPRESSED PCM via analog to my Outlaw 990 is perfectly fine sonically. I probably could not "hear" a difference using hdmi.

BUT...I do want great sound...so I need an SACD player with great DACs (ie, pay more $$$ for an SACD player and not utilize the great DACS in the Outlaw 990). I also have a separate Blu Ray player (the Samsung 1200 - which is EXCELLENT for both Blu Ray and Upconvert sDVD) but lacks SACD support.

Bottom line: to get what I want today...I need an SACD player and a blu ray player ... and both feed audio via analog out to the Outlaw 990.

gesh...marcus

Marcus, in reference to your quote;

"Bottom line: to get what I want today...I need an SACD player and a blu ray player ... and both feed audio via analog out to the Outlaw 990."

The 990 only has one set of multi-channel inputs, correct?

Or, can the digital output (optical or coaxial) from a SACD or Blu-Ray (or DVD-A for that matter) output the multi-channel information correctly?

I was under the impression that SACD and DVD-A needed to have the the "information", or music, output specifically via analogue (5.1) connections.

SACD cannot be sent over coaxial or optical at all. DVD-A can, but only as downmixed stereo. Blu-ray and HD-DVD players have been using a rather handy trick for outputting the new formats over coaxial and optical: they decode to multichannel PCM, then re-encode on the fly to high-bitrate Dolby Digital or DTS (Toshiba's HD-DVD players use 1.5mbps DTS, a lot of Blu-ray players use Dolby Digital).

Another option is to use something like this to switch between two multichannel analog sources, but that makes the video switching a little bit complicated.

My respurce is to use Y connectors from the 990 analog inputs to the two analog outputs of the SACD player and the blu ray player. Why? Because the best audio (currently) is only available via analog outputs. As Gonk said...you cannot get SACD or any form of high def audio from blu ray without analog cables.

Down the road, hdmi 1.3 holds some promise. But for right now...analog cables are the only way to go.

marcus

I have tried this, and found that one or the other of my SACD players was too quiet. The signal is almost grounded into the non-active device.
Not that is will do that to yours, but it did not work on mine.