Looks like Outlaw is getting close to some sort of release...they must have heeded the requests to add HDMI...wonder what else is up their sleeves? Whatever it is, I'm sure the new pre/pro will be great.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hi getech,

I wish that were the case, but it is not. Yes, we are working on a new processor, as is everyone else in the high performance area, but it is still a long way off. The 990 will still be with us for quite some time. Even Gonk's guess is optimistic

Peter, I stand corrected! I love my 990, it satisfies all my current requirements and it sounds better than any other processor I've heard, in otherwords...no hurry.

Good luck in your development of the next gen....

Forgive my ignorance. I'm trying to figure out what will the addition of hdmi 1.3 do for me. I feed my Oppo and Sony 955 hdmi video out to inputs on my TV.
The audio doesn't go to the TV. Will the audio signal carried by 1.3 provide any improvement over the audio now via DD 5.1 or dts?

Confusion caused by HDMI versions does not classify as ignorance, nfaguys. Most of the nitty-gritty details are touched on at least briefly in my HDMI FAQ , but put simply HDMI v1.3 is only of benefit over v1.1 if you have a burning desire to decode the three new HD audio formats in your receiver instead of your Blu-ray or HD-DVD player, and v1.1 is only a benefit over coaxial/optical if you are looking to send those three new HD formats or DVD-Audio from your player to your receiver digitally instead of as multichannel analog. HDMI v1.1 could actually be handy - the OPPO 981 could send multichannel PCM from DVD-Audio and SACD to your processor over the HDMI cable instead of half a dozen analog cables. The reason that Outlaw and many other companies elected to wait before adopting v1.1 is simple consumer pressure: too many people have heard of v1.3 and been led to believe that it is the only HDMI version to have.

That ignores those of us with PS3s as our blu ray player. No multichannel analog. If Outlaw had an HDMI solution today, I'd buy it to upgrade my 950. As it is, I'll be waiting awhile until something a little cheaper than an AVM40 is available (and that has no issues with 1080p signals).

BB

My thanks to both.
The issue/question is clarified.

The PS3 as a Blu-ray player is a prime example of that one case where HDMI v1.1 offers benefit over multichannel analog - the Toshiba HD-A2 also falls into that category. The 990 simply came too soon for HDMI support, but give it a year (maybe less) and there should be some alternatives to the AVM40.

HDMI 1.3 has other benefits worth waiting for: extra video bandwidth to a minimum of 2560x1600, automatic lip-sync, and an improved CEC (control) channel (which allows components to talk to/control one another, ie put a disc in your PS3 and it could turn on and properly switch a preamp and TV that are connected to it).

HDMI 1.3 has features that deserve serious consideration and care, as their implementation in the next Outlaw unit must not only bear out the life of the model (several years, most likely), but also deliver a superior feature set for the price to satisfy their customers. Considering that the software that drives HDMI upgraditis (HD discs) sells at about 1% the rate of DVDs, it's not a market that benefits Outlaw rushing into.

True, but the extra video bandwidth can't be used by anything yet, the automatic lip sync only works if the entire signal path is HDMI v1.3, and the CEC channel also only comes into play with v1.3. All of which comes back around to reinforce your point: best to try to get it right than to try to get it first (although getting it right for features that can't be used because other hardware doesn't exist yet will be difficult).

Hi Gonk, the head outlaw finally validated my password so I could post!

I was hoping that the price of the 990 would be reduced, only wish it was by $100 more. I'm planing on upgrading my system in the near future and the 990 remains on the short list. So does the new Onkyo '705 and '805 receivers. If the '705 has a phono input it would fill my needs, otherwise I'd have to go with the '805. (For some reason Onkyo hasn't issued the full specs on the '705 yet, it's due out in late June or July.)

With most of the Japanese makers due to release receivers with the new HD surround modes I wonder if Outlaw will be upgrading the 990 soon? Could just a software update add the new modes, or is this dependant on HDMI 1.3 HW? I'd sure like to know what Outlaw has up their sleves before the rest of the new Onkyo line is out, but I'll probably sit on the fence till late summer anyway.
(Rumor has it that Vizio will introduce their new 52" lcd tv in August, I'll probably get the whole Monty then.)

Hey, Ken! The move to HDMI v1.3 will be a significant hardware change from the 990 - the 49400 DSP processor is a great unit for Dolby Digital and DTS, but it's not meant for decoding or manipulating the new formats. We've heard from the Outlaw honcho himself (Peter Tribeman) that Outlaw's got some HDMI v1.3 irons in the fire, but there's no definite ETA - my best (by which I mean most optimistic) guess was early '08, but Peter posted recently that my guess may not be far enough out.

To clarify, most of the CEC functions were turned on in 1.2, but to your point, 1.3 turned on audio functions that are most relevant here.

The fact that other hardware doesn't exist yet is exactly my point. Based on their track record, Outlaw isn't likely to rush in on the new technology until they see how their target market accepts and adopts it. I'm going to guess that early adopters aren't Outlaw's target market, that they cater mostly to those who have taken the time to consider the value of new technology before they invest.

In the case of CEC, it shouldn't be hard to gauge - Onkyo's new units implement it. Don't mean to get off on a rant here, but Onkyo further confused the issue by calling it RIHD, because of course a longer acronym with the letters HD in it will make all the difference. They couldn't have called it something meaningful, like HDMI network?

Well, based on comments by Peter Tribeman, they clearly aren't jumping completely blindly into the swirling whirlpool mess that is HDMI - which is a good thing in the long run. They may move a little faster toward v1.3 just because that's the direction that market inertia is already pushing toward. As for Onkyo's "pet name" for CEC, it does seem counter-productive - we've already got more than enough acronyms and long-winded names for new standards without folks adding extra names for existing things...

Call me suspicious and skeptical of some sales departments, but there is a perfectly valid reason for Onkyo and other manufacturers to come up with their own acronyms: exclusivity. Kind of like saying, “Only Ford trucks are built Ford tough.” Uhh, OK. Anyway . . .

All a manufacturer has to do is add a little bit of functionality or adapt a process in a proprietary way and then give it a name not yet in use. Now no one else can sell it. They can say, “We’re the only ones that have _____ .” It doesn’t matter that almost no one needs _____ , just a special adaptation of something almost every other manufacturer has, because consumers might be swayed by the fact that another brand doesn’t have _____ .

Just think, if it weren't for HDCP compliance, we could all be using SDI for video and cat5 or firewire for audio...and there wouldn't be any implementation issues, poor connection issues and handshake problems!! I am not all that excited with HDMI, as a matter of fact, I think the industry is really screwing the consumer with this mess of an interface...but hey, they might prevent some copyright infringement for a week or two.

Make that two of us with a PS3, needing HDMI audio decoding......

Yep, we've all seen that enough times. The only problem is, Onkyo can't modify or customize CEC when they enable it. The CEC spec in HDMI is standardized, so that all enabled units can speak to each other, regardless of brand. In effect, Onkyo is branding a feature that isn't unique to them in any way. I'm OK with marketing, but this seems sure to confuse instead of enlighten.

Evidently the new PS3 firmware will put some sort of downgraded converted output from SACD over the optical output. Haven't tried it yet though.

BB