I have a quick question for the experts out there. I have a Polk Audio Rti system. I have the RTi 8's for the fronts, CSi5 center speaker, Rti6's for the surrounds and a SVS PB12-Plus sub.
I want to add a processor and amp to the mix. My tv room is not that big and I would use the sound/theater system for 50% music ( Jazz ) and TV and DVD watching. I was looking at the 990/7500 combo and the Anthem AVM30/Statement A5 as well. The latter will cost me $2,000 more. My million dollar question is will I hear a big difference with the Anthem gear or am I better off with the Outlaw gear? I know this is a Outlaw Forum but I would really appreciate an honest answer. Thanks for your thoughts.
Cheers!
Kirk

The AVM30 is a very respectable piece of hardware - some of that extra $2000 certainly gives you a little more. My SSP chart has the AVM40 in it these days instead of the AVM30, but the feature sets are similar if you throw out the 40's HDMI. The 990 offers auto-setup, phono input, and a 7.1 analog input instead of 5.1, but otherwise the AVM30 will readily show itself to be one of the "kings of menu options" that it is. You can tweak a lot of settings in an Anthem AVM.

Both Outlaw and Anthem offer good customer support, although with Anthem there's also the question of how good your local dealer is. Here in Memphis, we don't currently have a Paradigm/Anthem dealer because the old one closed several months ago.

Sound quality is important too, of course. The Anthem should have an edge on the 990, although how much is hard to say - there are some resources such as this old AVS thread and this related saloon thread . As you can tell by some of the tangents in those threads (mainly the AVS one), it's a subject that some people get very invested in. Both will sound good as long as you set them up with some care (forum member UMtiger has heard my 990/7500 system and an AVM30 system at our now defunct local Anthem dealer and found my setup to sound clearly better, which confirms that you can set any piece of gear up incorrectly and not achieve its full potential). If one will have an edge over the other, I'd expect the Anthem to come out on top, but I don't know how much edge there will be sonically.

Basically, "What he said." (gonk)

1) How far are you taking the rest of your system, as in, are you going to spend enough to take all the components to near the nth degree?

2) Don't let the $2K difference 'impress' you too much. The Outlaw price is less mostly because of a different marketing/distribution/retail path, not because Outlaw was paying any less attention to quality and the resulting sonics. Some of the remaining savings can be attributed to Outlaw's design philosophy - leaning more toward what makes a positive practical difference over offering features many people wouldn't implement properly anyway.

A - n - d … Outlaw gives you 30 days to try out their gear in your own system. If you take good care of the gear while in your home, the most you’re risking is the shipping.

Unless you really need something that is unique to the Anthem, go with the Outlaw.

Should I buy a BMW 530i or a Honda Accord EX V6? In terms of specs they are quite similar; same size, same horsepower, same options, etc. But is the BMW worth $20,000 more? It depends on how you drive, where you drive, what you like, and what is important to you. If you can, I would buy the Outlaw combination, try them for 30 days, and get a weekend audition of the Anthems in your home. Try them yourself in your room with your speakers, since electronics, room, and speakers all contribute to the final sound. Also try mixing the amps and preamps. What Gonk says is true, and your situation could be different from what someone else concludes with different circumstances. I have had four different local A/V dealers let me borrow equipment for the weekend. It is definitely worth the trouble and the potential one-way shipping costs. Take them all for a test drive!

I ended up keeping one Outlaw and shipping the other back. The peace of mind is worth the effort.

Thanks for the feedback for my question. Basically all I care about is good stage presence for my Jazz and pop music for my wife and great HT experience. I am well aware of Outlaw's reputation as a great value of their equipment. What ever combo I decide to get I plan on keeping it a long time so I want to make sure I get my money's worth.
Thanks.

Interesting you should say that wolverine. A year-and-a-half after researching audio separates and buying an Outlaw 950/770 combo, I researched cars and bought an Accord V6 - both purchases giving me all I needed and most of what I wanted. A year-and-a-half after that I bought a 2-person sailboat and have both a land vehicle that can tow my water vehicle to the marina and still have money left over for vacation/sailing compared to the BMW I drooled over before buying the Honda. Sometimes the 'shinier' stuff is really tempting, but doing some research and pausing to think means being ahead in the long run.

Kirk:

Some thoughts...

1. If you "plan on keeping it a long time" - I would recommend that you NOT buy a pre-pro at this time - wait 1 year and get one with HDMI 1.3.

2. Either combo will be fine. The Anthem Combo will probably sound better - but will it sound 20% better at twice the price? I don't know.

3. Looks like you are getting ready to make a sizeable investment in HT. IMHO, the most sensible way of "putting together" a great sounding system at ANY price point is to maintain proper "balance" among the components. The final sound quality will be "dragged down" by the lowest performing unit in your system.

I was looking at your speakers - again, IMHO, if you get either combo, your speakers will be the bottleneck. If I were in your position, I would start with better speakers and then build up from there. I would definitely keep the sub - that unit has a superb price-performance ratio...

If you plan on staying with your current speakers, I would get a B-stock Outlaw 970 and the Emotiva LPA-1 for under $1,150. You will see significant improvement over any < $2,000 receiver. Listening to good Jazz/Classical on a properly "put together" system is an out of the world experience...

BTW, what are you currently using for electronics?

There may be some merit there if he plans to get into Blu-ray or HD-DVD. For HD cable, HD satellite, and DVD, there's no compelling reason to wait for HDMI. And if he's already looking at an AVM30 and his budget supports it, he could also move up to an AVM40 and have HDMI v1.1 today.

Gonk:

Agreed. I just interpreted "long time" as > 5 years. Surely, most people will get into the HD movies by 2012, though HDMI v 1.1 and mch PCM will be fine for HD movies...

Also, it is almost impossible to find the AVM-40. I went to 2 Anthem dealers - both said that they don't stock the AVM-40 - they do AVM-30, AVM-50 and Statement D-2. I agree with their reasoning. For a $1000 more than the AVM-40, you get a fantastic scaler in the AVM-50.

BTW, listened to Anthem combo with Paradigm Studio 60 (latest v.4 - $1,700) speakers - was not impressed at all. Switched to Monitor Audio RS6 ($1,000) - was blown away by the SQ. YMMV.

I'm back
To answer the questions that was presented to me. The current audio/video system I have is: Denon AVR 1803 receiver, SVS PB-12 Plus sub ( Note: I just bought the Plus 12.3 woofer upgrade which I haven't installed. ), Mirage ( Bought in 1995 ) bookshelf 90 series speakers for the front, an old Polk Audio CS150 center speaker and two Ambiance D-Box satelite speakers for the surrounds. My tv is a Panasonic HdTV PT-47WX42C with no HDMI outputs and a Denon 1600 DVD player and the last piece of a equipment is a Enlightment Audio Design CD player. This set up sounds pretty good for DVD's but I'm definitely missing something on the music side.
I made the mistake of buying all the RTi series Polk Audio speakers first before considering what Prepro and amp to look at. The speakers are still in the boxes. I figure I can eventually upgrade the speakers in the future and as for HDMI I plan to eventually get an HD-DVD player and 1080P HDTV and connect the HDMI straight from the player to the tv.
So that is my present audio/video story. Your comments are always welcome.
Thanks.
Kirk

Back in the dark ages when all we had was stereo and vinyl LPs (I could never afford reel-to-reel) the best advice was to concentrate your money on the ends of the system; speakers and turntable cartridges. I think that advice is partially true today. I advocate finding speakers that fit your taste, room and budget first. If you like your Polks then I suggest you compliment them when considering electronics.

In today's HT arena I think the pre/pro makes a significant difference because of all the processing that is done there. I would rank a pre/pro as my second consideration. As noted before, complicating this choice now is the transition from analog and DVI connections to full implementation of some form of HDMI. If (as you note) a 1080p set and HD-DVD/BluRay player are in your future and you want to use HDMI you may want to wait for things to settle out before buying a pre/pro. The convenience of the HDMI connection and switching at the pre/pro may be worth the wait. HDMI is not necessary for video (DVI works too) but it will be able to handle the new lossless sound formats from Dolby and DTS. The Anthems (AVM30/40/50) are really nice but IMO they were not worth the extra cost over the 990.

Lastly, and down the list, is the amp. Both of the amps you are considering have a solid reputation and would give you many years of service. I'm sure some of the Polk owners in the Saloon can advise you as to the appropriate amount of power for your speakers.

Finally, if you want to move ahead now I can highly recommend the 990 for music. I use the 990's Upsample mode in stereo all the time and it is great. The 990's HT surround modes are no slouch either. Outlaw has a variety of multi-channel amps at various power levels that can meet your specific needs. All the multi-channel amps are made by ATI in Los Angeles and are rock solid. You can't beat Outlaws 30-day trial period. You could find out how they match with your Polks in your home (the best place to try them out) with only shipping cost at risk.

Just my 2 cents....

Thanks for your two cents. One of the reasons I went with the Polk's was I was surprised how my current CS150 2nd hand center speaker sounded. I went and auditioned the RTi 8's and the RTi 6's and CSi5 and they sounded very good to my ears paired with a Denon 2807 AVR receiver. This was for HT. I also thought this time around I will have a timbre matched speakers. If you say I would be happy with the 990/7500 I will consider this option. I knowone thing for sure it will sound better than what I have now, especially the music portion.

To add 2 more cents, beyond my listen for yourself recommendation...

I have a 990 and do agree with sb-avnut and avfan on the 990 over anything more expensive for another year or two.

I will also pick up on sb-avnut's "proper balance" idea and suggest you could think about the 990/7125 combo. Your Polks are quite efficient (90 dB), you have a sub, and you said your tv room is not that big. If you have not had separates before, the 7125 is far more amp than the amp section of the 2807 receiver, even though the wpc ratings look similar. The 7125 is rated at 125/190 wpc into 8/4 ohms with all 7 channels driven. If you read behind the fine print, the receiver is not. You could get 2 more RTi6's and go to 7.1.

Not that I have anything against 200 watts (said with a Tim Allen ARRH-ARRH-ARRH).

So do you think the 7500 amp is over kill for what I'm looking for? I like the balanced feature what the 7500 has to offer. How is the 7125 for music? Is a sonic felling amp?

The Polk LSi's have a reputation for being power hogs and a significant challenge for many amps to drive - if you had the LSi15, I'd say it's a no-brainer to go with the 7500. The RTi's are not so bad in this regard, being 2dB more efficient and a less challenging 8 ohm load. You might check out the Your System Saloon forum and the "what amps and speakers" thread for some examples of what RTi owners have ended up using. As wolverine points out, the 7125 might be a good fit. I wouldn't feel bad about putting a 7500 in the system, of course (said with a 7500 sitting in the entertainment center at home...), but it's worth kicking the idea of a 7125 around a bit...

dixlon,
To kind sum up all of the very good thoughts.....
1. A Balance system is a very good place to start. You will be happy for years and get the most out of every piece of gear.
2. Outlaw vs Anthem ~ money vs more money. Are the differences in sound/options worth the money? ….. a personal choice.
3. Outlaw equipment: a manufacture of high quality gear.
4. Anthem equipment: a manufacture of high quality gear.
5. HDMI, currently, is all video. Since the sound side of HDMI is not even out (masses), there are sure to be bugs in first generation. It is a personal choice if you want to pull the trigger. IMHO, When HDMI sound is showing up in the ‘Best Buy’s” of the world – then it is in the masses.
6. Spend time on your surroundings (room) to make sure you get the most out of your system. Include the wife in this area to make life better at home. (To our female gunslingers - your husbands all ready worship you.)
7. In the end, you are the one living w/ your system. Looking into post covering systems, you will find a wide smattering of combinations. All of them are correct .... for each owner.


Have fun and let us know what you have done. If it where me, I would go for the Outlaw and throw in a SMS-1 or a second sub. …Even take the wife out for a dinner and a “movie.”

I appreciate your comments and I think I'll try my luck with the Outlaw's. I've had previous sucess with another Internet HiFi company called SVS. I just need to decide to pair the 990 with either the 7125 or 7500 amp. I'm looking for sonic excellence for the amp I decide to purchase. This for the long term. I Love jazz...John Coltrane!!

I'd buy the 7500 amp if budget allows. You'd be more future proof with the balanced inputs, and additional power.

I have the Anthem AVM-50 paired with a 7500, and I'm extremely happy with it. I replaced the 990 with the Anthem.

I was also extremely pleased with the 990. I went with the AVM-50 to get HDMI and the video upscaling/processing capabilities.

The sound difference I hear between the Anthem and the 990 isn't as great as the sound difference was when I upgraded from a Pioneer Elite receiver to the 990. You can't go wrong with either the Anthem or the 990.

All that said, I agree with previous posters about focusing on your speakers. In my opinion, a budget receiver with great speakers will sound better than a great receiver and budget speakers.