Hello All!

There's a thread on this topic that I've been following on the 970 section, but since I'm interested in the 990 I thought I would start a new one here.

I've been listening to a Parasound P/SP-1500 for ten years now, and the surround processing is sooo outdated that I think it's time to update my system.

I'm on the fence between the Outlaw 990 and the Emotiva MMC-1. I've concluded that they are both great processors, equally priced and comparable in sound quality. I will probably be content with either, but I'm struggling with my decision. Here are a few features that really stand out on each side:

Outlaw:
1. The 990 has the auto-setup with the microphone, a feature I feel I could really use. I build speakers for a hobby, so I'm changing out my speakers a lot. I think the microphone calibration will be a great timesaver for me.

2. I have an amp with balanced XLR input. Is xlr superior to rca?

3. Finally, from what I understand, the Outlaw has superior Bass Management. Not sure how superior, or how much that will benefit me.

Now for the Emotiva:
1. 40% upgrade discount to existing customers. Wow, that's a lot. With technology changing as fast as it is, I'm sure that in just a few short years there will be all sorts of new surround processing features that I'll want. Or I could be wrong... The question here is, when new technology comes out, will I want my next upgrade to be Emotiva?

2. Blue lights and HDMI. Mood lights might impress my girlfriend.

I'm asking for opinions that might help sway me in my decision. I thought about ordering both and sending one back, but I hate to do that to either of these fine companies.


Thanks to you all!

I'll toss out a few thoughts here...

The 990 does have superior bass management - four crossovers instead of two, and the bass management works with the multichannel analog input.

There are arguments that can be made for XLR being better than RCA - the arguments are most convincing for long runs, and many people suggest that on short runs it's not such a big deal.

The MMC-1's HDMI switching is no better than the 990's DVI switching (it doesn't accept audio and doesn't support transcoding from analog video inputs). In fact, the MMC-1's HDMI switching is not even as useful as the 990's DVI switching since the 990 will let you assign those two DVI inputs to any video input, while the MMC-1's HDMI inputs are permanently assigned to two video inputs (both of which are also permanently assigned to two of the three component video inputs). The 990's component inputs are also assignable. Picture this: you have two DVI or HDMI sources and two (or three) component video sources, and you want to connect all four (or five) through your processor. With the 990, you could assign any of those four (or five) sources to any of the six video inputs (DVD and Video1 through Video5) and then re-name those inputs.

The 40% discount on future processors is impressive, but I've got some concerns about Emotiva that make me question using the discount as a deciding factor in a purchase. I've been trying real hard to get Emotiva to offer some information on the myriad problems that exist with the LMC-1 - sent several e-mails and started a thread at AV123 where I took the time to compile a detailed list of the unanswered questions and existing issues (some very significant, I might add), and it took a total of six weeks for my five e-mails to elicit a brief "we're starting to look into these" response. The MMC-1 and DMC-1 are pretty solid processors, but they were derived directly from an existing platform (the Sunfire Theater Grand IV) so the engineering hurdles associated with surround processing, bass management, and the like were done. The LMC-1 is the only true example of Emotiva developing a new product on their own, and it has had repeated and significant problems. I also lost a lot of faith in Emotiva when they claimed that the LMC-1's DTS-ES implementation was fine and that all the other manufacturers were doing it wrong. Why buy something now specifically to get a discount on a future product (for which no pricing, specifications, or delviery time table exist) when an existing product has pretty fundamental problems like those described here ?

Thanks for the info, Gonk!

I didn't realize what the assignable input meant! A buddy at work confirmed how useful it is, and was telling me how he wouldn't choose a AV preamp without it.

I heard that XLR interconnects had fewer problems with ground-loop noise, and I've always had a problem with a hum that I'm hoping will either not be a problem with the Outlaw Processor, or that can be eliminated with Balanced connections.

I think you're right about the 40% off incentive too. I've been using my Parasound Preamp for ten years now, so I need to focus on the equipment that will give me the best perfomance and sound quality over time, and not make a decision based on what "might be". I could very well be thrilled to death with my Outlaw for the next ten years!

I'm really leaning towards the Outlaw. The more I think about it, the more the Outlaw stands out as the right decision.

Thanks again for your input!

Matt

I share Gonk's concerns about Emotiva, but wouldn't sell them short by any means. I called and spoke with them to clarify some issues, and they were as friendly as can be. Took the time to explain things, and there was no pressure to buy.

Still, the LMC is right out for me. But the MMC-1 is an attractively priced, well equipped processor. It seems to be well built, and offers a DSP mode -- Side Axis -- that the 990 does not. For a full comparison, I refer your attention to Gonk's magnificent processor comparison chart .

There are a multitude of personal variables that come into play. Emotiva is offering an impressive April discount package. But at the moment, I believe that Outlaw offers better build quality, and is offering a sale of their own. At these price points, that makes Outlaw the better value in my eyes for the moment.

Can anyone tell me the difference between MMC-1's DSP Side Axis and the side surrounds of 7.1?

Please excuse my ignorance, this is all new to me since my current system is old school 5.1.

As far as sound quality I had both the 990 and the LMC-1 to compare. Both myself and my friend Brian felt that the sound quality on the Emotiva was more immersive, detailed and overall sounded better. That said, I wish I still had my 990. I can't complain because I was a beta tester so I got my unit at no cost. Recently I had the LMC unit connected to my PS3 and Brian and I were thoroughly impressed with the sound. James Bond Blu-Ray is a great reference DVD. I feel since AV123 and Mark Schifter are not really behind the company any more I don't how long they are going to be around. You know Outlaw is not going anywhere and so I get more peace of mind from that. 40% is a great deal only if the company is still around for you to use it. Whereas Outlaw products have great resale value so it is as if you are getting a discount anyway.
Just my opinion
Jeff

AV123 was never behind the company. Mark was it's distributor. There may have been financial connections between the two because Dan and Mark are old friends. Emotiva may a relatively new brand but the company has been in business a long time. Dan Laufman is not a noobie to the music electronic business. His company is the manufacturer for some very high end equipment sold around the world fo years.

Curious to hear that someone says the LMC-1 sounds better than the Outlaw 990. I had an LMC-1, but returned it due the irritating software flaws and speaker pops/hiss.

I've never experiencd any Outlaw products first-hand, so I have no frame of reference for what the 990 sounds like. That said, I'm strongly leaning towards the MMC-1 or Outlaw 990, but can't decide which would be better.

I'm very eager to read about more comparisons between these two!

Sorry to butt in, but gonk, I'm having a hard time picturing this.

I understand the first part in that you can connect four separate sources to the processor, but can you clarify the assigning part?

If I understand you, I could say, hook up my Denon 2910 DVD player to the 990's DVI 1 input and then assign the "DVD" input to the DVI 1 input and then rename it to something like "DENON"...?

EDIT: Reading the 990's manual online helps!

Also, how many letters do to the renamable inputs allow?

Here's a theoretical setup as an example. Source components would be an HD cable box (connected via "Video1" component video and "coax1" digital audio), DVD recorder (connected via "DVD-Comp" component video and "optical1" digital audio), upscaling Oppo DVD player (connected via DVI1 and both "coax2" digital and multichannel analog audio), PS3 (connected via DVI 2and "optical2" digital audio), and XBox360 (connected via "Video2" component video and "optical3" digital audio). We'll even toss in a sixth composite/s-video device such as an SMS-1 or a Nintendo Wii (connected via s-video and stereo analog audio to the "Video4" rear input). Now we'll configure our inputs as follows:

• DVD: "OPPO DVD" for label, DVI1 for video, coaxial2 for audio
• Video1: "HD CABLE" for label, COMP-VID1 for video, coaxial1 for audio
• Video2: "DVD-R" for label, COMP-DVD for video, optical1 for audio
• Video3: "PS3" for label, DVI2 for video, optical2 for audio
• Video4: "SMS-1" for "Wii" for label, s-video for video, analog for audio
• Video5: "XBox360" for label, COMP-VID2 for video, optical3 for audio
• 7.1 Direct: can't change label, DVI1 for video (same as DVD), can't change audio
• CD: "OPPO CD" for label, no video input setting allowed, coaxial2 for audio

You'll notice that we've got Video5 (the front input) configured to use rear inputs and that I was able to use one video input twice (DVI1, which I used for both DVD and 7.1 Direct so I could use the same video connection for DVD-A/SACD and regular DVD's) and one audio input twice (coaxial2, which I used for both DVD and CD so I could have the CD input configured for stereo playback). You can assign any DVI, component video, and digital audio input to as many different inputs as you want. This arrangement would not be possible with a processor that had fixed video input and fixed digital audio assignments.

You can have up to nine characters in an input name. I like to limit myself to eight so there's a space between the name and the digital input ID (right end of main display will say "COA#" or "OPT#" for inputs that use a digital audio input).

Thanks again, very clear picture of what you meant originally now.

Sounds like a very flexible system, especially compared with what I'm used to now.

One more little question, do you have to assign a video input?

Like with an HD DVD or BD player. Could I make the "Video3" input labeled "HD DVD", assign no video (just go straight HDMI to my display), and assign coaxial2 for audio?

There will be something set for the video input ("no video" isn't a choice in the menu), but that doesn't mean you have to use the 990's video output with that source. You could simply change your TV to some input other than the one fed by the 990 and take your video straight from source device to display.