I just upgraded my KEF Q speaker system to the XQ speakers last week. I got a really great deal from an authorized dealer on the XQ5, XQ1 and XQ2C models. I did a lot of research on these models especially on the XQ5 model since I still enjoy listening to good old stereo using the stereo bypass on the 950. I didn't care much for the sound stage on my Q5's and I read only great reviews on the XQ5. I audition the XQ5 at a local dealer and compared them to Paradigm Ref, Def Tech's and Klipsch around the same price range. As a Kef owner for the past 20 years, I've become accoustomed to the KEF sound.


I set up the speakers in the same locations as the previous speakers and balanced the speakers on my 950. I'm still using my LFM-1 as my sub. I also added some acoustic panels based on the DIY thread I read recently. I started with 28 sft of panels as a start in a room 13x18x8. I added a 2x2 4" panel behind the sub and added the other 2" panels at the first reflection point and also on the opposite wall. I also plan to add panels behind the front speakers if necessary. The front speakers are 2-1/2' from the back and side walls.

Well I started playing these speakers last weekend and I was both disappointed and excited at the same time. I first listened to the XQ5 in stereo. I noticed a big difference in the sound stage and the bass blew me away, but it was also overwhelming. The bass became annoying and the mids and uppers were harsh. The sound wasn't as annoying at low volumes but you can't get their full range at that level. The louder the volume, the more the harshness and the boomier the bass became. I'm not one for a lot of bass and I even keep the bass down on my sub.

I know there are different break-in periods for speakers so I called KEF and they recommended 30 to 40 hours at a medium volume. I also read a review that states these speakers become smoother after the break-in. I haven't run the speakers for that time period yet since I've been busy this past week.

I'm wondering if these speakers are too powerful for my room size? Do I need more acoustic panels without ruining the aesthetics of the room?

I thought of returning these speakers and keeping the old Q series. I can surely use any suggestions?

Thanks, Ron.

Without knowing the exact make-up of your acoustical panels and without being able to hear the speakers themselves; I have a two thoughts...

First, I think your panels might be sucking out too much mids and highs without doing anything for the low range. Acoustical treatment can do amazing things when done properly. The problem is that it's a very fine line between proper and a result that you're not going to like. Controlling bass in the room is especially tricky.

Second, check the jumpers on the speakers. It almost sounds like there's an issue with the tweeters.

Hope that helps. Keep us posted.

Jason,

The acoustic panels are made of mineral wool absorption material which are suppose to have good absorption characteristics. I'll first try removing the panels to see if that is the problem and then I try moving them around the room. But I still think the major problem is too much base for the room. I bought the panels because I performed the clap test and heard an echo in the room. The room has an area rug, 1 sofa and no curtains. The room still has a slight echo even with the panels.

Concerning the jumpers on the speakers, I'm currently bi-wiring the fronts and center speakers and I'm using spades as connectors. The Kef's use the same uni-driver driver as my previous Q model, but on this model there is also a hypertweeter. The hypertweeter supposely works when using SACD's or D-audio discs only. Is there anyway to test if the tweeters are operating properly?

A friend told me it took some time to break-in his Jamo speakers since he had the same problem at first. After some time the mids and uppers become smoother. I'm hoping mine will be the same.

Is is possible that I'm being over-critical at this time knowing these speakers cost 3x as much? or can it be these speakers are producing a fuller range of sound that I'm not accustomed to?

I'll keep you posted.

Couple of thoughts:

It sounds like you're using the right materials on the panels. I also reread your first post and it does sound like you've done your research concerning placement of the panels. I still think it's possible that you're not soaking up enough of the bass frequencies with the panels. Here's a website you've probably seen:

www.realtraps.com

Ethan has some good articles about controlling bass.

The "Hypertweeter" works all the time, not just on DVD-A and SACD discs. It's just that most CDs are bandlimited to about 20khz, or the natural range of human hearing. DVD-A and SACD aren't limited in this way. According to KEF, the "Hypertweeter" kicks in at 15khz so normal material does make use of it.

I'm not quite sure how you would test the tweeters, especially with a coaxial arrangement. My point was that if you feel like the speakers not performing properly, take it back now instead of later.

As for expectations of sound, you know what sounds good to you. Don't compromise. It may be that the speakers aren't a good match for your electronics and/or room. I would give them a little bit more time but don't wait too long. If they're not right, they're not right.

better take them back while you still can. if you dont like the sound of your speakers, you are probably never going to be completely happy. either that or you will spend an eternity tinkering.

Thanks again, Ron.Thanks for your opinions. I woke up at 3:30am and came to the same conclusion. I performed an A/B comparison with the XQ5 vs Q5 using various music sources. The XQ5 did have a better sound stage and more detail, but the Q5 weren't that bad overall. The majority of the time I listen to the local jazz station or cd's in 6 channel stereo and only spend 5% of the time actually listening to stereo. I don't think it will make a difference which speaker system I use when it comes to movies and the Q series sounded fine in that respect.

So tonight I'll pack the speakers. Since I purchased them on-line I will have to absorb the shipping fees for both directions but it is better than being unhappy.

Thanks again, Ron.

I thought I was sending the speakers back but I couldn't give them up that easy so I decided to give them another try. A friend suggested I move the speakers away from the walls to reduce the bass. I moved the speakers forward away from the back wall from 2 feet to 3 feet. I also referred to the KEF manual and it is recommended the speakers be at least 3 feet from the side walls. So I moved them from 2-1/2 feet to 3 feet. I now sit 9 feet away from each speakers and the distance between the speakers is around 6-1/2 feet on center.

The result, the bass was reduced slightly and the speakers were less bright and harsh. It could be the speakers are breaking in. I read a review in AVguide to make sure these speakers are "thoroughly run-in" and "improve markedly after the first week". I haven't run them much since I live in an apartment and I don't want neighbors to complain.

I again compared them against the Q5's and noticed more definition all around. The bass lines were so smooth on the XQ5 and began to noticed how muddy the bass was on the Q5's. The mids were that much different but I could noticed the openness of the XQ5. The XQ5 also come with a foam inserts for the 2 drivers in each speakers. I didn't try them yet but I will experiment this weekend.

Looks like I changed my mind again. Oh well, I couldn't pass up a great deal!

By the way, since I decided to keep the XQ speakers I would like your opinions concerning speaker spikes. I have read that using spikes directly into the floor is no longer the way to go. I hear that disks should be placed under the spikes whether on hard floor or on rugs. I'm using the disks under the LFM-1 and I'm wondering if I should use them under the spikes on the XQ5.

Ron

This has always been my opinion on the subject of speaker spikes:

Yes on carpet to help stabilize the stands.

No on wood floors - Use the disks that are usually provided.

Yes on subwoofers for clearance issues but only when used in conjunction with an Auralex GRAMMA (aka Subdude). The GRAMMA helps to isolate the sub from the floor. It can be very helpful in eliminating unwanted rumble and muddy bass.

Jason,

Besides stabilizing the speakers on rugs, is it true that spikes tighted the bass response and remove the muddiness?

By this point, I think everybody has their own opinion about what spikes actually do. So, here's an independent article from on the web:

http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/cones/speak.html

I, for one, agree with most of the points in the article. I still think that if you're looking to reduce muddiness you're better off isolating the speaker and/or stand from the floor by using something like the Auralex GRAMMA mentioned above.

i for one dont put much stock in speaker spikes/stands. they have their uses (uneven floors, better placement allowment, etc.), but if i were to get anything, i wouldnt spend much money on it. if(edit) the purpose of spikes is to decouple the speaker from the floor, to in turn place the spike in a disc defeats that purpose... they are personal preference imo. there are better places to spend your money.

Please read the linked article. It describes just how wrong this viewpoint is much better than I could write.

Heh yeah, the purpose of spikes is not to decouple the speakers from the floor, but to do just the opposite. In effect, to provide the speakers with much more solid footing than if they were just sitting on top of the carpet.

Totally not necessary when you are on hardwood floors as well.

yeah, so i meant to say "if" the purpose... i have edited that post to reflect what i wanted to say.

i dont see how cones would increase vibrations, but the point is moot because i dont and wont use speaker cones...

ronrags,
just a thought - i'm running into bass issues myself. So i'm looking into bass traps. I found some DIY on the web.
there have been some good threads on the topic in the hideout.
good luck.

Thanks for your opinions. I guess I'm just being too critical with my system.

Ron

I was just going to mention Bass Traps. Looks like somebody beat me to it though. Sounds like you are fighting a Standing Wave problem. Waves collect in corners of the room (two waves reflecting off of two walls 90 degrees from eachother will converge on eachother and cancel out in spots and amplify in other spots in the room, resulting in a warbling boomy effect). The tricorners at the ceiling and floor corners of the room are the main culprits. Im a sales guy, but not really trying to sell here, was just zooming through the net and caught this thread, thought my input may be of use to you all. 3-4" foam behind the speaker will help too, and in my opionion, sub woofers should energize air in the room, not the room structure, so I vote for isolating your subs as well. Check us out though: www.acousticalsolutions.com

--Later