Since a course on this subject and the theory behind it is clearly outside the scope of this forum, I'll do something better, and more useful. I will give you a simple, repeatable experiment that will demonstrate how electromagnetism works.

Take a length of commonly available insulated 20 gauge solid copper wire and wrap 10 turns around a #16 framing nail. Ensure that there is a close fit in the wraps and that the nail can still move freely within the coils.

Connect a small dry cell battery (1.5 volt should be enough) to the ends of the wire. Slowly insert the nail into the coil. Note that you feel a force pulling the nail.

Disconnect the battery and try 20 turns. Now repeat with 100. Try two batteries in series with 10, 20 and 100 turns.

This concludes our measurable demonstration of the effects of EM.


Your turn - you now have two tasks queued.

I really enjoy the responses delius. If there was a betting line available, I could make a fortune predicting your responses to people’s questions. Notice I used the word 'responses' and not 'answers'. That is because you never seem to be able to answer anyone’s questions.
In all my life, I can only think of one other person who answered questions with more questions than you, and that is Jesus. But that doesn't surprise me too much, because I think you would love to tell us how much you and he have in common.
A couple corrections for you though.
First, my name is spelled LONNY. I figured that, after your little tirade about someone mis-spelling YOUR (secret name), you would at least have the decency to write my name correctly. Shame on you!
Second, I don't drink. Never have. I don't get stoned either. You are still making some pretty large ASSumptions.
Third, I would love to hear what a fully belted environment can do for my perception of sound. Why don’t you invite someone who lives near you to come over for a demonstration?
Lastly, where could I find a list of these “Hundreds of customers and audio journalists” (particularly the hundreds of audio journalists), “who have tried these products also says that I'm right…”? Actually, a couple dozen would do.
Lastly, you have written here that you respect the truth. I would like to correct you once more by stating that your writings here clearly show that you respect YOUR truth, and anybody else’s truth is just a lie. That, my friend, is not something that is a trait of someone with an ‘open mind’.
Please, by all means, continue to post your responses. But please consider, at some point, answering the specific questions posed to you, with an actual answer this time.
Thanks,
Lonny

Jesus would eventually give a straight answer. Not so our D.

You're dodging again, Charlie. I wasn't asking for a course on the subject, or a dissemination of all known theory, nor a demonstration of how EM works. I've already done my own, I know that it works. But you seem to think that simply because the effects of EM can be observed, that everything about the phenomenon of magnetism is known to science and man. What you seem to be oblivious to is that physicists are still arguing that very point today, and there is much debate over what is and isn't known about magnetism, and definitely no clear consensus. Oh but being a member of the Outlaw forums, I suppose it may shock you too much to learn then that what may be taught in science class isn't the be all and end all of what is known about magnetism, and so like everything that contradicts what you and the other members of this forum have been taught, like the good sheep that play "follow the leader", you will simply refuse to believe otherwise or think for yourselves.

Well, I'll tell you what I believe. From what I have learned about you so far, I believe that you have learned about magnetism through its effects and not as a mechanism. Knowing how the field reacts is only pretending to know the mechanism, and it doesn't explain what the field is. All your simple demonstration proves is that the phenomenon of magnetism can be observed. But that doesn't explain what causes magnetism. Is it the spin of electrons? If so, why do the different spins cause magnetism? Given that I have read various competing theories as to the magnetic moment caused by the spin, please tell me which is the "one true theory" that is "correct"? (And, needless to say, you'll have to offer valid evidence to show how and why it supercedes all the others for it to pass muster with me... You know... allegiance to "the scientific principle"...). And I'm sure a lot of Outlaw members are confused about this and dying to know.... and since you know so much about electromagnetism....

You've just almost described one of the devices I use to improve my audio. Except mine has a 9v battery.... Too bad, you almost had the recipe for some powerful audio juju. I wonder if I should publish the instructions for making it and using it here? No, no. Pearls before swine, and all of that...


Not even close. And I'd say "nice try", but it isn't. You haven't answered a single one of my questions on the subject of EM, and I've just given you a few more. So you have two tasks queued. Don't disappoint! And remember, "responses are not answers". I gave you specific questions, I expect specific answers to them, that are considered to be "scientific fact", which you and yours claim to be so reverent of.


R. Mackey: Stay out of this. I know it'll be hard for you, since you're an arrogant blowhard and an attention whore. But I could care less about your input on the subject, and I'm sure everyone else cares even less than me about your boring opinions. I'll deal with you after I'm finished with your little friend Charlie here. But despite the dumb assumptions we've seen from the dumb natives about all the people I'm supposed to be, I'm just one person. I can only kick one ass at a time. So let Charlie fight his own ideological battles. He's a big boy, he started this battle, he knows what he's getting into, I'm sure he can stand or fall on his own. And if he really needs help to fight his battles, that's even sadder than what we've already seen all this time from the average yo-boys here.

cvinfig: Well then my dear Chewbacca, I equally doubt that you could explain how it is ignoratio elenchi on my part. And let me add, how very ironic in an audio dilletante's forum where ad hominem abusive is the only form of argument any of you closed-minded backwoods brawlers have ever used against Kaitt or Belt's products. Not to mention anyone advocating them....

Oh, I believe Charlie's doing just fine against you, tough guy. Don't worry, I won't help him a bit, unless he asks. But... "stay out of this?" What happened to your bravado? Are these not your words?

Now, then, if this is your idea of buying time while you can't answer my questions, it's poorly done. And yet another evasion.

How hard is it to explain how this stuff supposedly works? If you spent a hundreth as much time doing that as you did insulting the members here, we'd have settled this long ago.

That's nice. I really enjoy writing them. I always get a lot of laughs reading and responding to the messages. Although I admit its becoming a "guilty pleasure" to play with you boys. Note that my enjoyment in writing them is not predicated on you or anyone else reading them. Especially you.

On that note, I dont care much for your responses. They're just trolls. Full of hypocrisy and dumb BS, that it's tiring to wade through them, and not in the least bit challenging or interesting. In case you were wondering why I ignore your trolls so much, that would be why. I wasnt going to respond to this one either, but you're lucky that I spotted a couple of points of interest, and after doing your friend Charlie, I guess I'm just still in the mood to kick some Belt-bashers around.

Really? Could I get in on some of that action? PM me, maybe we could cut a deal. I suppose I could probably make more taking bets on how predictable the responses are that I will get from the people here. Especially if I start asking for grounds to support the libelous claims people here have made against Kaitt & Belt, probably you included.
Unfortunately, you have NO clue as to who you are, and where you stand among the herd of sheep in the world. I do, because I've been dealing with people like you for years. And let me tell you, you could change your name a thousand times, and you would still sound like the same troll I have already heard from, countless times before. In fact, each person here has a counterpart in another discussion forum somewhere on the net. Let me see... you're.... Walt. A sheep like you talking to me about predictability of behaviour? You have *no* idea.

Right! Maybe you shouldn't be drinking tequila while you're stoking up your crack pipe whlie you're trying to pretend to make a valid point on a discussion forum. I consistently write the most detailed answers of anyone in this forum's history. In response to those thoughtful posts, all that you and most here have been able to come up with is verbal diarrhea and mental masturbations. On top of that, I keep being told by those like you that I haven't answered the same questions that I have already answered, simply because of the fact that you and others are just too stupid to read my posts, as the length of them makes it too hard for you people to process. And if that weren't enough, when by God it should be..., in yet another ode to hypocrisy, my questions to others here are regularly ignored. It's been a running joke for me and my colleagues that whenever I ask for someone, anyone really, to provide a scientifically valid basis to support people's libelous claims of charlatanism against Kaitt & Belt, that its like turning on a light switch, and watching cockroaches scatter. Despite how many people posted such libelous claims, not a single person has responded to that. Let alone answered it. Are you going to be the first to provide that missing evidence? Or are you going to make excuses for yourself and your libel-happy loose-lipped friends, and run away under the harsh glare of the light?

Yes, I would. We're both Jewish. That's about it though, as far as I know. Oh wait..., and we both had to suffer the plight of fools. But he was much more diplomatic about it than I.

You think its shameful that I didn't spell your name right, but you have no problem with people here flat out lying about me on a regular basis, or calling honest audio engineers who are trying to contribute new ideas to our hobby and expand the SOTA "frauds and conmen", while providing no evidence for such? That's what I think is "shameful" about you.

Too bad. It would have been a safe way to explain your brain damage. Or at the very least, your unfathomable hypocrisy. Now you're gonna sound a lot sillier when you have to tell the story about the donkey that kicked you in the head.

Tell me about it. This entire thread is based around some pretty large ASSumptions, considering the fact that for hundreds of messages, not a single one of you pretentious twits, who nonetheless consider yourselves experts on Beltism and modded travel clocks, ever actually tried any of the products you have spent a significant part of your lives here bashing.


Oh yeah. I tried that once on an audio forum (which shall go unnamed to protect the innocent...). It all started when I talked about an amazing transformation arising from treatments I'd done to an amp. Someone asked me what I had done. Well, in that case, they were all Beltist treatmens, so since I already know how many of you closed-minded, rigid-thinking ignorant morons there are in the world, I could predict the boring "you so crazy!" responses I'd get with Swiss-clock accuracy. So I just refused to identify what I'd done. That led to a lot of charges of "no fair!" from the sheep, who had no idea why I would keep something like "tweaks" on a tweaker's forum, such a closely guarded secret.

Then after a lot of prodding and pleading from "the natives", I started talking a bit about what that was exactly... And as predicted, it sparked a rage of protest against me, and from that, a movement to get me kicked off the forum. That prompted me to get my guard up and "challenge" anyone willing to come to my house and hear my amp. I knew that at least one of the members lived in my city, but not he nor anyone else took me up on my generous offer to let these maniacs into my own home and let their own ears be the judge. Soon after, I was banned (also well predicted), so it no longer mattered anyway. After that, I decided that I would not care whether closed-minded imbeciles believed anything I said or not, and that I have nothing more to prove to anyone.

So if you want to hear what a "fully Belted environment" sounds like, you have to spend a lot of moolah on Belt products. At least I gave those who were truly sincere about expanding their knowledge of audio a free means to perhaps acheive some degree of Beltism in their own environment, with the L-shapes link. There's nothing stopping you from printing a hundred of them, and placing them all over your house. Just don't believe that's in any way as effective as actually using the real McCoy (Belt products) in your environment.

Belting an environment properly is -not- easy, -not- quick, and there's a certain skill involved, which is acquired through experience. The skill is two-fold; you have to know where to place the products for best sound, and (much of the time), you have to know what to listen for. Not everyone recognizes immediately how the sound has changed, because it has changed in ways they are not familiar with. Since no other products in the world change the sound in quite the same way as Beltism does, its no wonder people are unfamiliar with this. Hence there are many occasions where people don't recognize what has changed, and therefore are quick to ASSume that nothing has. Those people simply need to learn to recognize the changes and make the distinction between change/no change, and many simply don't have the patience or the presence of mind to do so. Beltism is unique in that the changes are often more readily heard when they are removed then when they are applied.

But you can't A/B a Belted environment, in most cases it isn't practical. It took me weeks and months to set mine up to where I and everyone else who heard the system (and knew what it sounded like before) could say a total transformation occurred. The degree of success you achieve is also relative to the quality of the components you are starting out with. So basically, someone who's never heard the system before can't say with any confidence that it is a "Belted system", even if they do like the sound of it. My challenge in inviting someone over to my place was not to show someone that my environment was Belted, but to show what a really crappy amp that self-professed so-called "audio enthusiasts" would never think of putting in their system, could sound like, at the heart of a system.


No problem, chief:

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/PWB/

Note that not all Beltists have internet accounts, or presence on the web. Note too that I never said there were "hundreds of audio journalists". And also note that I believe I ASSumed you were another drunken idiot, so that may explain why you think I said there were "hundreds of audio journalists" who advocated Belt products. There aren't "hundreds of audio journalists" who advocate -anything-, my seemingly drunken friend. Here's one:

http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize071999.htm


First of all, you've never "corrected me", so I dont know what you're talking about. Secondly, those are your words. I merely claim it as "false". A lie would have to be a conscious falsification, and unlike many of you and your stupid conspiracy theories about me and anyone else who advcoates advanced audio, I don't believe that any of you are lying in your assertions about Kaitt/Belt here. No, I genuinely believe you're just closed-minded willfully ignorant dumbasses, too foolish to help yourselves (or think for yourselves, as we have seen). And too foolish, naive and irresponsible to realize how wrong it is to glibly accuse genuine, sincere engineers who have created products you have neither tried nor understand, as "frauds and conmen".

So are you saying that we're ALL closed-minded here? Because if you're alleging that I'm as closed-minded as you and the rest of you here are, well that all depends on whether MY truth is THE truth, doesn't it. And since it is, that would make me the person with the open mind, and you the ignorant jackass, I believe. Oh but now you're going to pretend that there is some "controversy" about whether my truth is THE truth or not, won't you? But you and your virtual drinking buddies do not even come close to having a shred of credibility on these forums, because of one major difference between me and all the rest of you: Let me repeat that for the nth time, because I simply love doing so: fully NONE of you yo-boys have ever tried any of the Belt or MD products. That means you have no knowledge to impart on them and nothing to teach anyone about them. All that you and your Outlaw buds have ever had is half-assed opinions, which you all endeavour to pull out of your entire asses.

I have first hand knowledge of the subject of this thread, which is why I came here in the first place, seeing how many needed a schooling. I have extensive experience with them, particularly Beltism. Furthemore, I have extensive experience just in testing audio phenomenon, so-called "tweaking", more than all of you HT dilletantes combined (and no, by "tweaking", I'm not talking about setting off white noise generators to figure out where your 16 speakers are going to go). That makes my opinion on this subject credible (in objective terms). While it makes your opinion completely worthless. Don't worry, I will still defend your right to have your worthless opinions though, and be as stupid and ignorant as you want to be, and promulgate your ignorance to all of those who like you, refuse to think for themselves. But if you ever want to even pretend to have some credibility on the subject, at least to yourself, then you'll have to get started on doing the tests yourself, whether they are the products or the methods involved. No, it still won't make your opinion equal of mine, as Gonk seemed to think. But at least you'll have a bloody basis for it! Which is more than can be said for anyone here.

old chinese saying: better to be silent and be thought the fool than to speak and remove all doubt

Not at all. I just showed how you can experimentally verify that electromagnetism works, just as all the other things that make up a rational audio system can be verified and measured.

Still your turn, MR. pot, kettle, black. Go.

He's just getting angry because I won't go sightseeing down his blind alleys, and he's got nothing that stands up in the light. I won't prop up his strawman, or eat the herring.

Wow, that was fun. Later Mack.