I've got two multichannel surround sound sources, the Toshiba HD-XA2 HD-DVD player and the Panasonic DMP-BD10 Blu-ray player. In order to enjoy the ultra-high-quality sound that the Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats offer, I have to connect both of these players to the Outlaw 990 using RCA phono connectors (Toslink and digital coaxial connections don't have the required bandwidth to carry high definition sound, and of course the Outlaw 990 doesn't accept audio signals over HDMI) and let the players decode the advanced codecs for PCM streaming to the 990.

Both of these players need to share the one set of 7.1 channel direct inputs on the Outlaw 990. And therein lies the problem. Here's what I've tried so far to deal with this conundrum:

• Use three Radio Shack A/B switches. Worked for the DMP-BD10, but the HD-XA2's analog outputs stream out so apparently weak a signal that they couldn't get past the A/B switch--all I got was deafening silence. It wasn't the switches or cabling at fault, either--I switched the cables and A/B switch inputs to the DMP-BD10 and it worked fine.
• Use six Y-adapters. I tried the combiner approach using six 2 female-->1 male Y-adapters where a pair of channels--one from each player--is connected to the female RCA ends of the Y-adapter. The male end is then plugged into the appropriate channel. Rinse and repeat for the other five channels. It worked, but it also lowered the signal strength on each channel so much that I had to crank up the Outlaw 990 about 5 dB to compensate, which is unacceptable--I'm already running the preamp at around -5 dB for movies... that would mean running the amp at 0 dB which risks the sound getting distorted.

So that's where I stand right now. The next thing I'm going to try is using a component video switcher. Wal*Mart, Best Buy, Zektor and others sell component video switchers that could possibly be adapted for use as 5.1 channel surround switchers, provided that each input includes a composite video connector and that connector is switched even when signals are coming in on the component video connectors. The problem here is price--some of these switchers (e.g., the Zektor) are VERY expensive (~ $500)... it might be more cost-effective to sell my Outlaw 990 and buy an AVR that does HDMI, but I really don't want to part with my 990.

If I've missed any alternatives above, let me know... otherwise I'll report back my results with the component video switcher approach.

This is one of those issues that I've long wondered about - it's an issue for you, and it is or will be an issue for plenty of others as the format war continues. Four years ago, people were wrestling with the same thing because of DVD-A and SACD, but the two most common solutions at that time (Sony's TA-E9000 switch companion to the P9000 and a home-built box by Shawn Fogg) have both disappeared from the market thanks to time and the proliferation of universal players. At this point, I don't know that there is a single good and affordable solution. The closest that exists are things like this discontinued Zektor and its pseudo-replacement , neither of which will do 7.1 even assuming you don't mind the price ($260 for the current Zektor). If you could find a pair of decent component video switches, that'd be an option. Something like this would work if the digital audio connection would cooperate (not sure from the picture if it would, though).

Actually gonk, all that I would need to be able to do as an interim solution is switch 5.1 channels. The Toshiba HD-XA2 only has 5.1 outputs, so I can just permanently plug in the surround back left and right channels from the Panasonic DMP-BD10 and only switch the remaining 5.1 channels.

It's really amazing to me that this problem is turning out to be so difficult to solve. It seems as though the consumer electronics industry has made a collective decision that switching multichannel high-definition surround sound will be accomplished solely by switching HDMI. That's great for the future, but what about legacy systems like most of us mere mortals have?

I'm also surprised that there has not been more done on this front, especially after all the heartburn that people went through with DVD-A and SACD. I'd hoped that the arrival of even one of the new HD formats would have been enough in conjunction with the existing DVD-A/SACD user base to generate one or two good <$250 switching solutions. The closest I've seen is that Zektor HDS41, and I hadn't even noticed it until we got into this discussion today...

but untill the universial SACD and DVD-audio players came out.. both of those audio formats were really struggling to gain acceptance by consumers. Even now several years later.. it appears DVD-audio has lost out and SACD is only a audiophile format.

I think we'll soon begin to see those universal players now begin omitting DVD-audio from its playability.. and only keep SACD. but that's just my .02

I don't think we'll see DVD-A support disappear, and for one simple reason - it's too easy to include. The chipsets that player manufacturers are using anyway support DVD-Audio, so that all you have to do is enable that feature in the software and you can add another bullet point to your player (not to mention getting a thumbs up from those DVD-A owners) for almost no cost whatsoever. This happened with the OPPO 971H. It actually went to market initially without DVD-A support, but they had a multichannel analog output for Dolby Digital and DTS and realized that the chipset supported DVD-A if they only enabled it in the firmware. SACD is more complex, since it uses DSD instead of PCM, but SACD support is hanging around because that format is still seeing software growth. If we ever can move to HDMI and survive the HDCP horrors that come with it, it'll be even easier for player manufacturers to continue including DVD-A because they can do it while omitting the multichannel analog outputs that SACD and DVD-A both require. It's similar to why Video CD support shows up on most DVD players: there's very little consumer interest in it, but it's so easy to do with the hardware required for a DVD player anyway that it's almost silly not to include it.

Sadly, my science experiments with using component video switchers for switching 5.1 channel surround sound were all failures. I tested three different switchers (Radio Shack's 4->2 switcher, the Philips switcher sold by Wal*Mart, and a friend's Zektor) and all of them (even the Zektor!) introduced some amount of signal strength degradation and/or audible noise into the PCM stream.

Regrettably, this leaves me with no other choice but to start looking at the various A/V receivers on the market that accept HDMI 1.1 or better, and to put the Outlaw 990 up for sale. Oh well, at least I'm still an Outlaw with my trusty 7700. And when the day comes that I replace my projector with one that is HDMI 1.3-compliant, I'll definitely give Outlaw my business if their follow-on to the 990 is HDMI 1.3 as well (I can't imagine that it wouldn't be).

Thanks gonk, for all your help with my 990 over the past ten months. It's a great preamp! I just wish it would magically sprout some HDMI inputs.

One thing that I don't think I even looked for was the possibility of a used Sony TA-E9000ES (the multichannel analog switch that was released so that their TA-P9000 would work with multichannel SACD). It's been discontinued for a number of years, but had a huge popularity for a while among folks trying to run both DVD-A and SACD...

Scott, what will you be asking for your 990?

A very simple workaround, though probably not of much interest in this forum is a patchbay. It allows me to feed the 990 from my analog outputs of Oppo 981, Sony dvd jukebox and my hard drive machine with multi-channels. It is "normalled" to the hard drive Alesis macchine and patched as desired. Should I wish reassignment without getting to the back it's very easy. Objections would include having short patch cords in front. Fortunately Mrs. Nfaguys knew what she was getting many years ago

$875. A fellow member of avsforum.com just sold his for that much, and his was older than mine.

I wouldn't sell the 990 too soon. Outlaw used DVI instead of HDMI for good reason -- HDMI is unreliable (and the connector is lousy).

I would suggest not waiting for a pre-pro or receiver that does HD decoding. Even hdmi.org recommends that HD decoding be done in the player.

You may want to investigate the outboard HDMI switcher now available from Sherwood Newcastle (maker of the 990) for use with their P-965 and R-965.

Your best bet may be to find a used Sony TAP9000ES. (I have never seen any other preamp with multiple multi-channel inputs.) On the other hand, by the time you find one, there will probably be a good universal HD player on the market.

Be patient. This is just a temporary problem.

I'm in the same boat.

Have a 5-disc Sony CD/SACD changer, am getting the Oppo 981HD, want be able to listen to multichannel music on both. Perhaps that discontinued Zektor is the way to go... And of course, once the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format war is over, there will be a 3rd multichannel source to switch...

**sigh**

Another thought... about the Zektor HDS4.1.

If I had to switch one or more 5.1 channel source and a single 7.1 channel source.... could I simply run 5.1 from each to the Zektor, with the extra 2 channels from the one source going direct to the 990?

Anyone?

Anyone know the answer to my question directly above?

Help?

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. You'd just have to make sure the 7.1 source wasn't turned on and playing when using a 5.1 source.

Ooh. Good point, Gonk.

Scott, you say the switchers all degraded the sound in some fashion? I'm eying the Zektor, and would be curious for some details about your experience with it...

Thanks.