Hi there, I'm trying to do the firmware upgrade using a USB to serial adapter. It's based on the Prolific 2303 chip. In in XP's Hardware Management, I see Com3, Com4 and Com6. I want to assign Com6 to be the device for the firmware loader, but I only get Com1 and Com2 as options in the loader. Is there any way around this without changing operating systems?

And actually, I'm just doing this as a test. I'm trying to build a little GUI to control the Outlaw and perhaps other things. I'd be interested to hear from others that might have tried this.

Thanks,

Otto

I am no expert on how the firmware loader was written, but it may be purposely scanning low com ports as a way to keep things simple.

I would suggest reassigning the com port on your USB adapter, unless there is a conflict.

I don't know if this interests you, but I am considering this for my much-delayed HTPC project.
I already have the kit minus the RS232 cable, but the remote control distribution logic is not as straightforward as I originally thought, so I might have to rethink my mad world domination plan. Here's a link to a thread where Gonk, Elmosaurus and yours truly got into the subject of IR distribution on the 970 and 990.

I only bring this up because it sounds like you might want to send commands to the 990 via RS232. I would expect that to work. Now passing those commands to the IR-out port on the back of the 990 is not mentioned in the manual so that part *may* not work. If it does, please let me know.
One thing we do need is the RS-232 commands for the 990. If you read the "Outlaw guide to the SMS-1", Appendix A, you'll see what I mean.
The outlaws did a nice job with that SMS-1 manual. It would be nice if some outlaw out there did something similar for the 990. Although I never seem to have enough time to tinker...

Hi,
Thanks for the responses. I may be interested in the remote thing later. I'll have to look at it. I use a Harmony 890, and takes care of most of my problems. Still, I want to be able to communicate with the 990 directly from the PC.

I was able to reassign my Com ports to 1 and 2, and the Outlaw firmware loader seemed OK with that. However, I just get the "Device Restart" message over and over. I tried with both my cables, on Com 1 and Com 2, reset the 990 several times, restarted my PC once.

Has anyone been able to do the firmware upgrade using the Com port as assigned through a USB to Serial cable?

As to the RS 232 codes, they're out there. Search this forum for rs232 protocol and you'll find it. You might need to "OK" the install of Korean fonts for Acrobat, but after that you should be able to view OK. That's what we're using to try to talk with the 990, and no luck...

If you are using the USB output from your computer for the firmware update, why not just go to the 990's USB port? That will remove one device from teh signal chain. I hadn't mentioned it because I figured the main goal was getting the RS232 protocols cranked up, but if you are getting error messages I'd be tempted to try that approach.

Yeah, I already did the upgrade through USB. I'm just trying to verify that my cable and PC can communicate with the 990 at all using USB to serial.

The software we wrote is not having any effect on the 990, so we're not sure if it's our software, the PC, the 990 or the cables.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the issue but, does the 990 recognize discrete commands via the USB interface?

Otto, are you trying to do a firmware update or test whether you can communicate using the intended setup for the control utility you are planning on developing?

If you have communications established with the 990 and you know the RS232 commands, you should be able to test things by going to the command line and typing something like:
ECHO [some command] > com2

I personally would not use the USB port on back of the 990 as I am not sure of the implications of sending commands to that port in the "service" mode. Having said that, I am wondering why not just use a plain old serial cable?

I see you already partially answered my question, Otto.
Me and my long-winded posts...

Hmmm... I was just thinking if you could also try Hyperterminal. If the 990's RS232 port "talks back", you should be able to interact with the 990 by simply typing commands in Hyperterminal...
I haven't tried any of this, you just got my mind going...

I haven't heard of anyone around here trying to use a USB-to-serial device to interact with the 990's RS232 control, so you may be the first to do so. Have you perused this thread ? There was some extensive discussion of using the RS232 protocols with a standard serial-to-serial connection, and there may be a few tidbits there that can help you troubleshoot the USB-to-serial RS232 connection.

Thanks guys, I'll check that thread further. Yeah, basically, I'm trying to develop a program that will let me control the 990 from my PC. The only way that i know of to control the 990 is thorough the serial port, and I have the document that defines the protocol required for the 990.

Since our software doesn't seem to be doing anything, I thought I'd try the firmware upgrade to see if I can get anywhere with that. As you guys know, the Outlaw download tool isn't exactly the most robust tool in the world. I made roughly 20 attempts this morning with two cables, and had no luck. However, I wouldn't necessarily say that 20 failures means that it will never work; I had many, many failures when trying to download the firmware using the USB interface, and it finally worked.

So, yeah, the firmware download is just a test to see if the interface works.

The reason I don't use a regular old com port is that my PC doesn't have one. Neither do either of my laptops. I have a PC in the basement that probably has a com port, so I can drag it up and see what happens.

I believe that the RS232 protocol runs on +/-12V and the USB to serial thing is going to translate that to TTL at +/-5V. So that may be a problem. OTOH, there are lots of devices that are able to run using the USB to serial cables and that are tolerant of the voltage difference.

I also posted at AVS, so we'll see if anything comes up there. I'm also looking for a known working tool that can control the 990 -- something that someone else developed and tested. I don't necessarily want to get the source, but I could use it for verification purposes. My friend said he saw some stuff where people had done that, but I didn't find much on Google. I'll keep looking, but if someone's already done it, lemme know!

Anyway, that's it -- just trying to verify where the problem lies with my current lack of communication, and then develop a tool that will control the 990 (among other things, hopefully).

Thanks.

Thanks gonk! Looks like I'm about a year behind as usual...

That thread indicates that I may be able to see return values when using the remote. I'll look for that tonight.

I look forward to hearing what you come up with, Otto. With RS-232 disappearing from the computer world, the consumer electronics world is going to have to follow suit - the 990 starts moving in this direction, and USB-to-serial devices can provide an interim solution for a few years (assuming they can be made to work, which I agree with you should be possible), but eventually we'll probably see the interfaces that RS-232 provided migrate to USB or even ethernet.

Yeah, gonk, I agree that "com" ports are old news, and that manufacturers should migrate to USB and ethernet... I wonder how hard it would be to get the USB interface on the 990 to be able to talk with the PC for this type of control.

That aside, I can report that I was able to communicate with the Outlaw using a "real" com port. I dragged my "office" machine out to the living room, hooked up to an RS-232 port and, using my software, was able to control the 990 on the first try.

So, now I'm left wondering what's up with the USB to serial cable. I contacted the CharmedQuark guy, and asked if he'd ever used a USB to serial device in his testing. I just sent that email this morning, so we'll see what he has to say later.

I will also be contacting Steve/Scott to see if they know about this.

Sounds like a cool project, Otto. I look forward to hearing what you come up with.

Are your working on a proprietary project or is it something you can share?

Good luck on your project. Let us know how it turns out.

It's just something for me. However, my boss is working on it with me, so if it gets to that point, we'll have to see how we feel about it. We are trying to develop it with the idea of controlling more than just the 990. It's not for our work or anything like that, though... Just a personal project.

I got a message back from Steve yesterday. He didn't really discuss why, but said not to use USB to serial adapters. I asked about 12V vs 5V, but he didn't really address that. He said that some people have been able to get USB to serial devices to work, but that they're not really supported. That stinks, and I'm now on a journey to find something else. I think there are PCI to serial devices out there, but I hope I don't run into the same problem.

I'll keep working it...

I purchased a PCI to RS-232 card. I am now able to talk with the 990, just as if I had a "real" com port as part of the original machine. We will be continuing development of this program, but it will probably be somewhat slow going...