I am new to the form and would appreciate any help. For the last few weeks I have had problems with the 990. While watching TV through the cable box, the tv goes to black like when the 990 is turned off. Turning the 990 off then on brings the picture back.
The 990 must also be turned off and on too when switching from DVD to Video 1 (cable), switching from video 1 to DVD is ok.
Another issue is a blue screen for a few seconds on the tv while watching cable or a dvd, the audio is not affected when this happens.
The last issue I have is getting the cable programs audio to play through my external speakers. DVD plays through the surround sound fine. Cable only plays through the TV speakers since a hard reset. Befor the hard rest was my inital install and the tv (cable) would play through the surround speakers some times and other times it would play through the tv speakers. I never figured out why. I hope it is not the 990.
Thank you for any help.
Craig

System
990
7125 amp
Panasonic TH-42PM50U TV
comcast DVR cable box

craigp,

Welcome to the saloon! When I have run into issues in my HT I start with the easiest things to fix. You may have already checked, but make sure all the cables are well seated; a loose cable can cause intermitent problems. It looks like your video issues occur when you use your Comcast cable. Are you using a new cable box or changed the box's setup? You may want to do a hard reset of the cable box. If so, you may want to revisit the setup/reset with Comcast technical support.

I have run into a similar problem with the surround speaker/tv speakers in a family member's system. He has a Panasonic plasma TV with HDMI inputs. The HDMI connection provides audio to the TV even though it is preferred to have the sound from the AV receiver. If you have connected directly from the Comcast box to the TV with HDMI that could be the problem.

There a lot of very knowledgable folks in the Saloon. With a little more detail on how you have connected your system I'm sure the Gunslingers can figure out why you system is misbehaving.

AvFan's right that making sure all cables are properly seated is an excellent place to start, but we may need to dig a bit deeper into how you have everything connected to resolve the issues you are experiencing. The symptoms you describe make me think first of HDCP handshake problems, assuming that your cable box is connected to the TV with an HDMI cable.

First, a few questions. What DVD player are you using? What model of DVR cable box do you have? How do you have the cable box and DVD player connected to the 990? How do you have the 990 connected to the TV? Do you have any video signals going directly from source component (cable box or DVD) to TV?

Second, a few thoughts. First, you'll want to have digital audio from both the DVD and cable box (optical or coaxial, doesn't really matter which). You'll want to make sure that both DVD and Video1 are configured to use the correct digital inputs. (You mentioned a hard reset - if that was on the 990, it would have wiped out all of your settings and you would have to make these settings again.) If you have HDMI going straight from the cable box to the TV but you don't want to use the TV's speakers, you may want to adjust the cable box's settings to disable audio over HDMI - which is the most likely reason you have been getting audio to the TV at times.

Thank you AVFan,

I will look into the cable box as one of the problems, we have switched the comcast box many times due to its poor quality.
The set up for the speakers and tv are:
TV HDMI to DVI out (audio & video); cable HDMI to DVI 1 ; cable audio to coaxial 1 ; DVD HDMI to DVI 2 ; DVD Audio to Coaxial 2. This is how I currently have the system connected. I hope this will help any Gunslingers out their that might have some ideas.

Thank you,

Craig Pfaff

Here is a little more info
The Cable box is from Comcast Motorola DCT6412 III
My DVD player is Toshiba SD-K850 (I know it is not high end) I don't have problems with the DVD Player. Except the blue screen that occures during TV or DVD.
The front pannel of the 990 says video 1 (while watching cable) ; Analog; Prologic II; a red R2; and a red speaker. Last night before I messed with the 990 settings the front pannel said video 1 coaxial and now only says video 1. I hope this helps.
Thank you,

Craig pfaff

You definitely want to re-visit your input settings in the 990 - it sounds like the unit got reset, and if you don't have analog cables run from the cable box to the 990 you won't get any audio.

The DVD input should have DVI2 as the video input and coaxial2 as the audio input. The Video1 input should have DVI1 as the video input and coaxial1 as the audio input.

I agree with Gonk, check the 990 setup to make sure everything matches how you have it hooked up to the back of the 990. One of the things you could try is remove the comcast box and check out the operation of the 990, DVD, and your Panasonic display. I have also had to replace my cable box (Scientific Atlanta) due to quality issues so lets find out if the cable is the problem.

I'm not sure your issue with inconsistent sound, either from the TV or the surround processor, is the same as I have experienced since you have you are using DVI/HDMI cables. I don't use digital video as my plasma only has component inputs. I didn't think DVI includes audio. Regardless, revisiting the 990 setup might resolve the matter.

Keep us up to date on your progress.

I have checked the 990 settings and they are correct , as listed by gonk.
There are some other settings on the 990 when setting up the DVD and Video 1, I am not sue if turning different options on or off make a difference. I have not noticed anything different either way. As for the cable box and the blue screen we have changed the box like 3 times since installing the 990 and I get the blue screen with the DVD player too. That might be a switching issue.
The audio issue I have no idea why I can not get the cable audio to run through the 990. I know you guys are the best at cracking these issues. I hope it is just a minor issue and not the 990.
Thank you very much for your input.

Craig Pfaff

Based on this , there is no way to disable the HDMI audio output. (Sadly, there is no 6412 III manual here to help shed light on the subject.) On the other hand, we have long believed that the 990's DVI switching did not pass HDMI audio anyway, which should make it a moot point. Do you have any other audio connections coming from the cable box that might be going to the TV?

It may be a silly thought, but make sure that the cable box is connected to the 990 using coaxial1 and not something else. Also make sure the cable is solidly connected at both ends.

The blue screen sounds like an HDCP handshake hiccup of some sort. Nothing comes to mind right off as far as a solution, but I'll keep thinking on it.

I was having a problem with my Motorola cable box from Comcast. The sound was dropping out, (mostly during Patriot's games ). It turned out the settings in the cable box were wrong! You might want to go back and revisit these settings, accsessed through the Guide button on the remote. Jim

I know this is a tough one. The TV is only connected by HDMI to the 990 and I am getting sound. The cable audio is connected correctly to the 990. I saw yesterday that there is no way to choose the audio out on the cable. I might have to call outlaw to try to help with this one. If you have any more thoughts I am still looking.
Thanks,
Craig Pfaff

One suspicion that I find myself having is that the 990's DVI switching uses dual-link connectors and that this actually does allow HDMI audio to pass. We'd believed that the way it was wired simply abandoned the audio data of an HDMI cable, but it's possible that an HDMI to dual-link DVI cable at each end would allow the HDMI audio to travel successfully through the 990's DVI switching (assuming both HDMI-to-DVI cables were wired the right way).

All of that aside, the problem remains that we need to get coaxial digital audio from the Motorola to the 990. If there's still no way to disable the HDMI audio output, you should at least make sure that the digital audio output is set to "bitstream" or "raw" to insure that the SPDIF (coaxial/optical) output is getting the proper signal (otherwise you will never get Dolby Digital audio). It might even be necessary to find a different HDMI-to-DVI cable (perhaps one with a single-link DVI connector) to see if that breaks the HDMI audio signal in case that's causing the Motorola to disable the SPDIF output for some silly reason.

Here is a site that has the features of the Motorola DCT6412.
http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412.asp
here are the outputs ; Baseband output (Video, L/R Audio) ports. I hope that soon comcast comes out with the tivo3. In the past the surround audio worked with the cable box and the 990. I have not changed the connections from the original set up and it worked in the past on music channels and on on demand movies, sometimes with the TV channels.
I still don't understand why the picture drops out and tv goes to black as if there is not an input, not sure if it is the 990 or cable. I think the 990 makes a click sound like when it is turned on or off. The other new thing is that the blue light on the 990 is always on even when the 990 is turned off.

Thank you for your help
Craig Pfaff

The info page is a little out of date since they're still showing a version with DVI output instead of HDMI.

We may need to make sure we understand what is not happening. Do you get absolutely no sound from any channel (which is the way it sounds in your earlier posts)? Do you get audio from some channels but not others (which your previous posts suggests might have been the case in the past)?

If the bright blue light is staying on all the time, then you've got the second zone turned on - you'll want to turn the 990 on and then turn the second zone off using either the second zone remote or the 990's menu (under multizone). Once you've done that, the "R2" on the front panel will go away and the blue light will go off the next time you shut off the 990.

Here's a weird thought - how do you have the 7125 trigger cable connected? Make sure that it's connected to trigger 1 on the 990. If it was connected to trigger 2 and you had trigger 2 enabled for the DVD but not Video1 then you could get part of the behavior you describe - DVD's would give you sound, but the cable box would not.

I don't recieve any sound from any channel right now. In the past when I first set up the 990 I would turn the system on and sometimes the sound came from the tv and other times it would come from the surround sound. Since a little befor the hard rest until current I don't have any sound from any channel through the surround.

Thank you for the R2 issue, that is now fixed.

As for the wierd thought, I just looked and do not have a trigger cable hooked up. Could this cause problems not having this connected? It seems that this wouls only turn the amp on and off with the 990, am I correct?

Another thing I found strange is the the 990 never turns on from the remote, off works, but to turn on the 990 it must be done manually. Is this how it works or do I have another issue.

Thank you,

Craig Pfaff

I'm starting to come up with a curious theory about the cable box, but first we'll take care of the straightforward stuff.

With no trigger cable, you are either leaving the 7125 on all the time or manually turning it on and off. There should have been a trigger cable in the box with the 7125, which when connected to the 990's "Trigger 1" output would let the 990 turn the amp on and off at the same time you turn the 990 on and off.

The power button on the 990's remote is a discrete power "off" command - to turn the 990 on from the remote, you simply pick any input command on the remote (DVD, Video1, ...) and the 990 will turn on and be set to that input. This is done to provide discrete power on and off commands for universal remote users who want to be able to write macros.

It appears clear that you are somehow succeeding in passing HDMI audio through the 990's DVI switching (something that has been discussed in the past and assumed by most around here to not be possible). Here's my theory (and it's just a theory at this point): the Motorola is able to establish an HDCP handshake with your TV that includes successful digital audio transmission, at which point the Motorola concludes (wrongly) that the only digital output necessary is the HDMI connection and shuts down the coaxial and optical outputs. The result is audio from the TV speakers but not from the 990. If I'm right, Motorola has done something supremely stupid that would mess up a good number of home theater users. Presumably in the past the Motorola didn't always recognize the connection (which would explain why the problem only occured intermittently) but a recent firmware update to the box "improved" it so that the box consistently recognizes it. Here's a crazy thought for a test of this: put a single link DVI to HDMI adapter at the 990's DVI output (something like this one and then run HDMI from there to the TV. HDMI uses single-link DVI for the video side, and I'm guessing here that the extra pins for dual-link DVI are what are letting the HDMI audio pass through the 990. If my guess is right, a single link adapter will break the signal path for the HDMI audio, at which point the Motorola box ought to believe itself to be connected to a DVI device and revert to coaxial and optical for the digital output. I'd also take another run through the Motorola's settings before buying anything to make sure there's not some way to disable HDMI audio output - there really ought to be, even though all indications are that there's not.

You mentioned several posts back that you've got your Video1 input configured properly now (DVI1 for video and Coaxial1 for audio). When you have the Motorola on and the 990 set to Video1, does the "Digital" indicator on the 990's front panel blink on and off or does it stay lit continuously? If it is blinking, this would indicate that the digital output is "dead" - no data stream at all.

I am not sure what DVI link I have I will look into the single link connector. I rememer the conectors I have now were like $30 or $40, so there is a good chance they are dual link.

Thank you for teaching me the trick for turning the 990 on with the remote.

The digital is blinking on and off, so I asume from what you said it is "dead" no signal.

On the back of the Motorola box there is not a coaxial connection. The audio now is run out of the video connection ( the orange connection). A picture of the back is at this site
http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412.asp
The only other audio on the back is stereo Right anf Left or optical. I believe I have the right out put.

Thank you so much for your knowledge and help,

Craig Pfaff

I'm beginning to not care for these Motorola boxes. They could at least label the outputs for pity's sake. Coaxial digital uses an RCA connector just like analog audio, composite video, and componetn video. The orange color is typically indicative of coaxial digital audio - yellow is composite video, red and white are analog audio. I think you're right.

Since the digital signal really is missing in action, here's a really quick test - unplug the HDMI cable and see what happens. I'd be curious to know if the audio starts up.

I unpluged the hdmi from the cable box and the digital still flashed. As I was back there I saw a few conectors that were orange in color. So I figured what the heck I will try the SDPI (I think that was what it is labled). I pluged it in and sound was comming from the center channel. When I swiched out the other Motorola DVR we had to this one I must have connected to the wrong out put. We have switched the DVR like 3 or 4 times, they are junk and people online agree. I hope we get the Tivo 3 soon in our area with comcast. Now I get sound either through the tv or the surround. So for everyone that thought sound through the DVI was not possible it works.

I will keep you up to date on the system if it keeps turning off, so far the last few days I have not seen it happen. My wife says it has. I have also not seen the blue screen in a few days...yet.

One last thing is that sometimes the sub will make a popping sound. Is there any easy fix to this problem, I think I have seen on other posts that sometimes it is a connection issue.

Again thank you for your help,

Craig

It was probably labeled SPDIF (Sony Philips Digital Interface), and it is often used as a label for coaxial digital audio connections. It sounds like you can just turn off your TV's speakers and you'll be good to go.

What about the other issues any suggestions?

I will keep you up to date on the system if it keeps turning off, so far the last few days I have not seen it happen. My wife says it has. I have also not seen the blue screen in a few days...yet.

One last thing is that sometimes the sub will make a popping sound. Is there any easy fix to this problem, I think I have seen on other posts that sometimes it is a connection issue.

Again thank you for your help,

Craig

We've been so focused on the audio from the cable box that I had to backtrack a bit.

Are there any triggers that typically cause this condition? Changing to or from certain channels, for example? Also, when this happens, I assume that the audio continues. Can you change inputs and be OK?
It sounds like the 990 has to be cycled off and back on when switching to the Video1 input in order to get video to the display. Is that correct? If so, it sounds like an odd HDCP handshake issue of some sort. I'd be curious to know if you can power cycle the TV or cable box and resolve the problem that way as well.
If this just happened with cable, I'd suspect signal strength issues, although that would also affect the audio signal. Are there any common triggers such as going from DVD menu to the movie, changing channels, or going to and from recorded content on the Motorola?

When you get a popping sound from the sub, is it at start-up and/or shut-down or does it just happen randomly? It could be related to the sub's auto-sensing on/off circuit. A good test for that would be to simply turn the sub to "on" and leave it on for a few days - if the popping stops, then it's caused by the sub either turning itself on or off and you could either leave it on all the time or think about decreasing the gain on the sub's amp and increasing the sub trim at the 990 so that the input signal is higher. That would make the sub more likely to trigger on sooner and to stay on longer.

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While watching TV through the cable box, the tv goes to black like when the 990 is turned off. Turning the 990 off then on brings the picture back.
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Ok the first issue when the tv turns off we lose picture and sound. I think the 990 clips out and turns everything off. I don't beleave this has ever happened with the dvd player on. That may be because we don't use the dvd player as much as we do the tv.

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The 990 must also be turned off and on too when switching from DVD to Video 1 (cable), switching from video 1 to DVD is ok.
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I tried the switch from dvd to video 1 and now the sound works throgh the coax, but the picture does not come back. I turned the tv off and on still no picture. I tried turning the cable off and on and that worked. Turning the 990 off then on works too. There is not a problem switching from video 1 to DVD, only when we switch back the tv does not come back on.

quote:
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Another issue is a blue screen for a few seconds on the tv while watching cable or a dvd, the audio is not affected when this happens.
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The TV goes to snow not blue, sorry for saying blue. There is not a trigger that is common to when this happens. The sound is not affected. We just have snow for a few seconds then the picture comes back and everything is ok.

As for the sub it is left on and even when not in use sometimes we will hear a little pop from it kind of like the one people can hear when a sub is turned on or off. Not sure if it is a connection or electrical. I have a richard grey 440 i think that is the model so it should be clean power.

Thank you for your help,

Craig

For the first one, does the 990 actually turn off or is it still on but with no sound or video? If it's still on, I'd be curious to know if you could change to the DVD input (or even the tuner) and get sound and video (or just sound, at least) from those sources.

The second one appears to be a straightforward issue of how your cable box negotiates an HDCP handshake. Basically, it does so badly. It can't establish the HDCP handshake unless either it has just turned on or the next device in the signal path (the 990) has just turned on. As a result, once the handshake is lost (990 input changed), it can't re-establish the handshake until it has that "start-up" opportunity. This was a little more common with older devices, even though HDCP wasn't ever supposed to behave this way - clearly Motorola hasn't done much to change this box since they first introduced it with a DVI output years ago. The reason you don't have a problem with the DVD player is that it negotiates the HDCP handshake properly. I'm afraid the only solution for using that Motorola box is to either turn the 990 off and back on or turn the Motorola off and back on - and to keep an eye out for a newer model of box from your cable company.

What sub do you have? Does the sound happen when changing inputs or changing channels on the TV?

The first one the 990 does not turn off, the blue light stays on. It makes a clicking sound then the tv is black. As for the sound it to is gone. Since I have fixed the coax problem it has not turned off, so I am not sure if we will still have sound or not. If it happens again I will let you know, what happens.

Comcast should be comming out with a new box since they are now partnered with Tivo. When we see them I don't know. I hope that will fix issue 2.

The sub I have is a Paradigm Seismic 10. The sound happens all by itself while watching tv. I am not sure if it is receiving info or what but it does it as it wants to without any imput from me.

Thank you,

Craig

Hopefully issue 1 is resolved and won't reappear. Also hopefully, Comcast will get you a newer box that knows how to properly establish HDCP handshakes.

I suppose you might double-check your sub cable connections or try a different interconnect to the sub - a loose connection or weak spot in the cable could do some odd stuff with no obvious pattern.