I like the idea of having such a variety for bass management,such as the 990 offers, but I will still need to be converted somehow in order to believe that tweaking from source to source, even Cd to CD will not be necessary to achieve optimum listening enjoyment.
We have all found ourselves sitting in our favourite chair, listening to something at reference level and wishing the bass level was up just a notch or down just a hair to really complete the moment.
I went the DIY route for a while and built my own subs (Shivas in sealed and vented configurations). Even some of the cheap plate amps provided for a remote level control.
Now I have a $1300 sub that sound fabulous by the way, but I'm still wishing I could tweak it from the remote.
Like I said,some stuff just needs to be adjusted.
A perfect example of this is the Sting DVD, All This Time.
This is a really great DVD, but the bass track is just really heavy. It is downright insulting and embarassing to have to go to the back of the sub and trim it down when the boys are over. I have learned that the NAD T-163 pre/pro offers
this luxury for the sub and the center and surrounds, right on the remote.
Now that is tweaking!!
Great conversation people.
Thanks again

Mcleod, your post made me register and get in on this conversation. I have the 990 / 7700 with Axiom M80v2's and an EP600. Overall I am quite happy...BUT...the bass management issues still do drive me nuts! IMO they have not been addressed enough, and yes I have the latest firmware.

What I can tell you is that I have been able to tweak everything "almost" enough that being able to adjust the bass or treble for that matter on the remote is enough for the majority of music. The stuff that I can't adjust enough is generally not a good recording to begin with and it wouldn't matter anyway.

Now I know it's hard to please everyone but it seems to me that this whole bass management thing could be easily solved by just letting folks set cross over frequencies on BOTH their mains AND the subs.

In other words, my M80's sound great down to about 40hz, maybe a bit lower. But in order to do that I need to set the 990 for "small" and then set the crossover at 40. But then all I get is 40 and below to the EP600. Works OK, but not optimal. 60hz would be better but then I'm taking away from the mains some frequencies that they should be producing. It would be real nice to be able to set the mains at 40 and sub at 60, yes I know double bass issues etc etc. Trust me, on some systems this works.

What sounds better is when I set the mains to "large" and the sub to L/R+Sub. But my problem then is that I'm driving the M80's full frequency. Not that they can't handle it, and there's very little (if any) distortion even on loud thumping bass. But in my head I know it could be better.

And no where can I find in the manual or here what happens to the sub level when the the speakers are set to "large" ? I'm assuming that the sub is driven at full frequency? I've been using the subs internal crossover at 60 hz. Anyone know if this is the case?

It works great, but once again I think it could be improved. There's always that little voice in my head saying "it could be better". But that happens a lot!

Anyway, it seems that it would be so simple to offer bass management on a much more friendly level. Allow the user to set both main AND sub level and I think a lot of what has been discussed here would be taken care of. Or at least allow a full frequency to the sub no matter what the mains setting is because most subs have an adjustable cross over built in.

Robert

How would the sub's crossover function? There are signal path issues that I'm not sure are solvable. If you set a 60hz crossover for the sub, what signal is that crossover applied to? Is it the sum of all five or seven full-range signals? If so, then you would have to set it to equal the highest crossover in the system or you'd lose information. Here's an example: mains set to 40hz, sub set to 60hz, surrounds set to 80hz - the result is that surround data between 60hz and 80hz is lost completely.

Here's an option that the 990 can do that might help you: set your mains to large, set the sub to L/R+Sub, and set the mains crossover at 60hz. This will give the mains a full range signal (which will naturally roll off around 40hz anyway), but a copy of the mains' data below 60Hz will go to the sub at the same time. There will be double bass, just as would be the case with the separate sub crossover, but data from other channels won't be lost.

Hey Gonk, thanks for the reply. I realize for 5 or 7 channel listening that it would be hard to handle and not really ideal. Should probably have clarified that. But I got the impression that what mcleod was eluding to was 2 channel stereo. Or 2.1, which is what I was referring to. I listen to my Axioms 95% or more of the time in stereo. Movies are secondary but still sound great.

I do have it set to L/R +Sub most of the time with the mains set to large and it seems to sound the best. It is a bit warmer than if I set the mains to small, with a crossover of 40. I am correct in assuming then that if the mains are set to large and L/R+ Sub with the crossover set to 60, then at least in stereo mode I get a signal of 60 and below to the sub. I wasn't sure. Thanks.


BTW....All in all these components sound wonderful together. I'd give them a 97%. I think I would have had to spend a considerable amount more of $$$ to get the last 3% though.

My issue is not with optimum placement or crossover settings. It's with the inability to readily adjust output volumes from the sub for any given source.
When we set up our systems, we do it to fixed freqencies. Once we set everything up to our satisfaction, we are then at the mercy of the source material (music, movies ect)
Depending on who engineered the source material, you can have huge differences in the actual sound of the source material.
I have always found the sub levels to be the biggest culprit. This is why I am so surprised, in this day and age that there is not a direct access to the sub volume on the remotes.
Simple example. Give me the perfect room with the system dialed in perfectly.
Put on Diana Krall live in Paris DVD and enjoy the wonderful sound of the acoustic bass, but just a touch more bass volume for that particular song or passage would be perfect.
Tha is the tweaking I refer to.
Change DVD's and put on AC/DC at reference levels.
I want more output from the sub for this.
I simply wat to raise the sub volume for that particular recording or track.Again, that is the tweaking I am speaking about.
I am happy with the sub's integration into my mains and surrounds, I just want to be able to cotrol the sub volume readily from my listening position without needing to get up and fiddle with the gain control at the back of the sub or go through sub menues to do so.

Hi RobertW,
Perhaps you can enable the private post section of your profile or you can send me an email.
I would really like to ask you a few questions about your axioms and the 7700 combo
Thanks

Mcleod, sent you PM.