can anyone tell me if the remote for the 990 allows for instant access to the sub volume level without having to access a menu on the pre/pro.
I am in the final stages of deciding on a new pre/pro. Anybody who really listens to music can relate to just how irritating it is to have to get up and adjust the gain on your sub manually,
from track to track or from disc to disc.
Tweaking is just so important with the low frequencies to get it just right!

There is not a direct control to adjust sub level. It can be a problem for some, but there are some good tools in the 990 that can allow the sub to be integrated with the mains so that you don't necessarily have to ride the sub trim all the time. Between the adjustable crossovers and the two-channel sub offset (which allows the sub trim to be run up to 8dB lower when in a two-channel mode), you can dial it in pretty well.

Thanks very much for the quick reply.
I'm a real tweaker when I listen to my music.
I'm forever adjusting the sub level because none of the recordings are consistent, whether blues, R&B,Jazz and especially movies.
The tools in the 990 sound helpful, but if anybody at Outlaw is reading this, It is a feature that would truly be helpful and convenient.
There are a couple of competitors that offer a remote adjustment for sub level.
Thanks again gonk

You mentioned in another thread that you are using Axiom M80 mains. Where do you cross them over to the sub? You could probably let the M80's run pretty low and only cross over to the sub at 60Hz or possibly even 40Hz, so that the sub stayed pretty quiet with music.

MY m80's are crossed over at the pre-determined 80 hz of my NAD T-770.
I recently purchased the Axiom Epic 80 system with an EP-500 sub
I am replacing my T770 to allow more flexibility in that regard, as well as upgrading the wattage.
I have not ruled out another receiver, however, I really want to have access to the sub level without needing to access a menu.
The Outlaw 7125 is certainly getting alot of good press. If I could find a pre/pro with the sub volume on the remote, I'd likely give that combo a whirl.
Thanks again for your comments Gonk

The Velodyne SMS-1 might work.

It may eliminate the need for excessive tweeking, and the volume control is nice.

WIth 6 presets available and volumne, it might do the trick.

It's a bit expensive, but the SMS-1 would provide a dedicated remote sub volume control and would be an excellent way to integrate the sub with the rest of the system - to the point where you might find your volume tweaking days behind you. In fact, some of that tweaking may be the result of you trying to compensate for a null or peak under 80Hz that is obscuring sounds at other frequencies...

We all take different approaches to how we set up and use our systems, but I've always tried to find a way to get the sub integrated with the mains such that the two blended without the sub calling undue attention to itself or being left out. By being able to set the crossover point so that my mains handle everything down as far as they can effectively go (as is possible with the 990's quad crossover system) and tinkering just a bit with my sub trim, I was able to get my LFM-1 to blend quite well with my Paradigm Studio 60's prior to getting the SMS-1. Once I had the SMS-1, I actually raised the crossover so that the SMS-1 could correct for a problem spot at 63Hz. Being able to use a test tone to achieve both flat frequency response across the sub's full range of activity and equal level with the mains is really the ideal for sub integration. That's just me, though, and what works for me won't work for everybody.

Thanks again gentlemen.
I will look into the SMS-1.
A quick question for you gonk.(comments welcomed from anyone)
Can I assume that you have set up your sub in a surround configuration and never have to play around with the gain for different playback sources, especially at reference levels.
That, to me, would be Mastercard priceless!If so, I'm doing something very wrong.Thanks again

The folks at M&K suggested to me to trust the 990 cross over and turn off the cross over on sub.

In other words "Open it all the way up".

Why have two crossovers? Makes sense.
I did this also and found the sound more smooth. They said to experiement with the 990 cross over to what sounds best, not the sub.

Im still working on it and perhaps I will for a while.

The SMS will give you 5 different settings you can configure. While tweaking is necessary as not all material is the same, I think for the most part you can create what you need between those settings and the volume without having to keep getting up.

I think the SMS will also assist in the polarity.

I agree with M&K, Nalod - the crossover in the sub originally appeared because receivers didn't perform any bass management. Once receivers and processors began providing effective bass management (something that Outlaw has put a lot of emphasis on even back in the days of the Model 1050), the sub's crossover isn't needed.

With a well-chosen crossover point, some care given to phase (the EP-500 offers 0 and 180 degree settings), and a little fine-tuning of the sub trim setting, you should be able to get a smooth integration of sub and mains even without a device like the SMS-1. Using that approach, I have been able to integrate my sub with speakers such that I didn't have to tinker to get positive results. With my old sub (an SVS 25-31PCi) and old house, I had to lower the mains crossover to 40Hz to achieve that, as 60Hz or 80Hz crossovers yielded too much boom in music. With our the den of our new house and the LFM-1, I was able to get a great integration of sub with speakers at a 60Hz crossover.

The SMS-1 will simplify this process by offering greater control over the phase (15 degree intervals) and by providing visual aids (frequency response graph up to around 200Hz). Check out the Outlaw Guide for some idea of what the SMS-1 does for you.

I like the idea of having such a variety for bass management,such as the 990 offers, but I will still need to be converted somehow in order to believe that tweaking from source to source, even Cd to CD will not be necessary to achieve optimum listening enjoyment.
We have all found ourselves sitting in our favourite chair, listening to something at reference level and wishing the bass level was up just a notch or down just a hair to really complete the moment.
I went the DIY route for a while and built my own subs (Shivas in sealed and vented configurations). Even some of the cheap plate amps provided for a remote level control.
Now I have a $1300 sub that sound fabulous by the way, but I'm still wishing I could tweak it from the remote.
Like I said,some stuff just needs to be adjusted.
A perfect example of this is the Sting DVD, All This Time.
This is a really great DVD, but the bass track is just really heavy. It is downright insulting and embarassing to have to go to the back of the sub and trim it down when the boys are over. I have learned that the NAD T-163 pre/pro offers
this luxury for the sub and the center and surrounds, right on the remote.
Now that is tweaking!!
Great conversation people.
Thanks again

Mcleod, your post made me register and get in on this conversation. I have the 990 / 7700 with Axiom M80v2's and an EP600. Overall I am quite happy...BUT...the bass management issues still do drive me nuts! IMO they have not been addressed enough, and yes I have the latest firmware.

What I can tell you is that I have been able to tweak everything "almost" enough that being able to adjust the bass or treble for that matter on the remote is enough for the majority of music. The stuff that I can't adjust enough is generally not a good recording to begin with and it wouldn't matter anyway.

Now I know it's hard to please everyone but it seems to me that this whole bass management thing could be easily solved by just letting folks set cross over frequencies on BOTH their mains AND the subs.

In other words, my M80's sound great down to about 40hz, maybe a bit lower. But in order to do that I need to set the 990 for "small" and then set the crossover at 40. But then all I get is 40 and below to the EP600. Works OK, but not optimal. 60hz would be better but then I'm taking away from the mains some frequencies that they should be producing. It would be real nice to be able to set the mains at 40 and sub at 60, yes I know double bass issues etc etc. Trust me, on some systems this works.

What sounds better is when I set the mains to "large" and the sub to L/R+Sub. But my problem then is that I'm driving the M80's full frequency. Not that they can't handle it, and there's very little (if any) distortion even on loud thumping bass. But in my head I know it could be better.

And no where can I find in the manual or here what happens to the sub level when the the speakers are set to "large" ? I'm assuming that the sub is driven at full frequency? I've been using the subs internal crossover at 60 hz. Anyone know if this is the case?

It works great, but once again I think it could be improved. There's always that little voice in my head saying "it could be better". But that happens a lot!

Anyway, it seems that it would be so simple to offer bass management on a much more friendly level. Allow the user to set both main AND sub level and I think a lot of what has been discussed here would be taken care of. Or at least allow a full frequency to the sub no matter what the mains setting is because most subs have an adjustable cross over built in.

Robert

How would the sub's crossover function? There are signal path issues that I'm not sure are solvable. If you set a 60hz crossover for the sub, what signal is that crossover applied to? Is it the sum of all five or seven full-range signals? If so, then you would have to set it to equal the highest crossover in the system or you'd lose information. Here's an example: mains set to 40hz, sub set to 60hz, surrounds set to 80hz - the result is that surround data between 60hz and 80hz is lost completely.

Here's an option that the 990 can do that might help you: set your mains to large, set the sub to L/R+Sub, and set the mains crossover at 60hz. This will give the mains a full range signal (which will naturally roll off around 40hz anyway), but a copy of the mains' data below 60Hz will go to the sub at the same time. There will be double bass, just as would be the case with the separate sub crossover, but data from other channels won't be lost.

Hey Gonk, thanks for the reply. I realize for 5 or 7 channel listening that it would be hard to handle and not really ideal. Should probably have clarified that. But I got the impression that what mcleod was eluding to was 2 channel stereo. Or 2.1, which is what I was referring to. I listen to my Axioms 95% or more of the time in stereo. Movies are secondary but still sound great.

I do have it set to L/R +Sub most of the time with the mains set to large and it seems to sound the best. It is a bit warmer than if I set the mains to small, with a crossover of 40. I am correct in assuming then that if the mains are set to large and L/R+ Sub with the crossover set to 60, then at least in stereo mode I get a signal of 60 and below to the sub. I wasn't sure. Thanks.


BTW....All in all these components sound wonderful together. I'd give them a 97%. I think I would have had to spend a considerable amount more of $$$ to get the last 3% though.

My issue is not with optimum placement or crossover settings. It's with the inability to readily adjust output volumes from the sub for any given source.
When we set up our systems, we do it to fixed freqencies. Once we set everything up to our satisfaction, we are then at the mercy of the source material (music, movies ect)
Depending on who engineered the source material, you can have huge differences in the actual sound of the source material.
I have always found the sub levels to be the biggest culprit. This is why I am so surprised, in this day and age that there is not a direct access to the sub volume on the remotes.
Simple example. Give me the perfect room with the system dialed in perfectly.
Put on Diana Krall live in Paris DVD and enjoy the wonderful sound of the acoustic bass, but just a touch more bass volume for that particular song or passage would be perfect.
Tha is the tweaking I refer to.
Change DVD's and put on AC/DC at reference levels.
I want more output from the sub for this.
I simply wat to raise the sub volume for that particular recording or track.Again, that is the tweaking I am speaking about.
I am happy with the sub's integration into my mains and surrounds, I just want to be able to cotrol the sub volume readily from my listening position without needing to get up and fiddle with the gain control at the back of the sub or go through sub menues to do so.

Hi RobertW,
Perhaps you can enable the private post section of your profile or you can send me an email.
I would really like to ask you a few questions about your axioms and the 7700 combo
Thanks

Mcleod, sent you PM.