Will there be new audio formats? Will the 990 be unit have firmware upgrades or do you thin they will come out with a brand new unit.


What's your opinion?

There are three new audio formats available with Blu-ray and HD-DVD: Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD. All three require either HDMI v1.1 or multichannel analog connections. My HDMI FAQ goes into some greater detail on the different versions of HDMI and how they relate to these new formats - it's entirely too complicated, due to the fact that HDMI was brought to the market before it was really done baking. The 990 will not be able to support the HDMI - the hardware changes required to add HDMI would be massive, which is actually why Outlaw elected to stick with the much more stable DVI format when they set out to design the 990 a couple years ago. The 990 can accept all three of these new formats via its 7.1 Direct analog input, however.

Gonk, by using the 7.1 audio in on the 990 arent you bypassing the procesing of the 990. Isn't the 990's processing what makes the 990 sound so great.
When using a 7.1 analog in setup would all pre/pros sound the same. What Im trying to say is would the pre/pros characteristics still come through or would the sound be colored more by the processor in the hd-dvd or bluray player.

You are bypassing the processing, but (unless all speakers are set to large in the 990) you still get bass management.

With an analog input, differences tend to be less (and the player becomes more important), but analog design in the pre/pro is still important too - and one of the 990's strengths is how clean and transparent the 990's analog half keeps things.

I am under the impression that none of the preamp processors made today will be able to offer the DVDHD surround modes. From what I hear, these will not be avaialable thru a digital connection outside of HDMI. This is not fact as I am not on the inside but it is what people in the industry are saying.

That's not entirely true, although it is true that the trusty SPDIF (coaxial or optical) connection can't carry the new formats due to bandwidth limitations. Here's the deal (with greater detail in my HDMI FAQ if you want it):

• If players decode the new formats to multichannel PCM (which should be the standard approach, although the early Blu-ray players are being a bit inconsistent about this), then HDMI v1.1 or v1.2 can carry the audio to a processor or receiver (assuming the processor or receiver supports HDMI v1.1 or higher).
• Once hardware with HDMI v1.3 arrives on the market, it will be possible for the original digital bitstream to be sent from the player to the processor or receiver.
• Backward compatible Dolby Digital or DTS signals can be provided by the players over SPDIF (coaxial or optical), depending on which format and which player. This is not the new formats, but it many cases it is still a nice step up from what we're used to with DVD's (high-bitrate DD and DTS that the DVD bit budgets have prevented us from having access to before).
• Assuming the player supports decoding of the formats (which is essential for you to hear the formats as long as we don't have HDMI v1.3) and the player has multichannel analog output, the millions of existing Dolby Digital/DTS receivers and processors that lack HDMI v1.1+ support but have a 5.1 or 7.1 analog input can still get the new audio formats. Granted that's not digital, but it's still a connection.

So far, only about three or four surround processors offer HDMI v1.1 inputs (meaning that the HDMI inputs can handle both audio and video), although it's more common in receivers. Those four processors are pretty pricey - the Anthem AVM50 runs around $4700, Arcam FMJ AV9 is $5500, the Anthem Statement D2 runs $6700, and the Lexicon MC-12HD is somewhere around $13000 I believe. Now that the HDMI spec has stopped changing (version 1.3 was finalized back in June or July), companies like Outlaw, Rotel, Parasound, and others can start developing products that incorporate HDMI, although the actual HDMI chips needed for that are apparently still being finalized and put into production. Most of the focus is on the HDMI v1.3 output chip needed for the PS3, so input chips needed by surround processors may not be as ready for inclusion in new products as some folks would like.

Hold the phones, hdmi to be obsolete in 2008. A new format is already in the works called hdwf. I don't know the exact initials but it is a clabless system which operates on a 60 hz frequency. it allows pure digital uncompressed audio and video to be sent between your componets. Just when we thought hdmi was the be all end all they start working on this. Although if it works well, cabless would be awsome.

I have a toshiba hda1, and using the 7.1 analog inputs sounds much better than any of the other connections. Just wish the 990 could apply dpliix to it's 7.1 inputs (since the hda1 only has 5.1 analog out), but I am going to get a couple of y connections and see how that works for simulated 7.1 with the new audio formats. Also, the toshiba sounds excellent as a CD player when using the 990's 2 input analogs.....I use bypass mode and am really astounded at how good it sounds. The reported great CD play of the toshiba
here is what finally pushed me over the edge with hddvd. That and a price just over $350. Anyway, I feel the 990 is a great pre for the toshiba.

Where did you find the hda1 for $300?

did'nt....updated the typo to just over $350, using 100 continental airlines miles, their shopping program had it listed at $349, with shipping it was $362. I found the details from here

Change has certainly been one of the few constants in consumer electronics, but I really doubt we'll see a wireless HD audio/video connection scheme in just 18 to 24 months that will actually supplant HDMI. After all, Google doesn't even know what HDWF is at this point. There is this Wireless HD plan that hopes to begin to appear on the market in 2008, but I have my doubts about that time table. Besides, aside from projectors and remote equipment racks, how many people are really inconvenienced by a single cable? This seems more like a niche product, at least in the near term, even if they can pull off that much bandwidth without any loss of quality or performance problems.

Thanks for the hd-dvd info mm_half3. And I think your right gonk. I dont think well see this WIHD(the official initials) used in recievers and prepros until atleast 2009 or 2010. And one cable definitly doesnt bother me. I imagine when widh becomes available it will spark all sorts of discussions on what sounds better, cable or wihd making your future hdmi 1.3 equipment purchases good for years to come.

The WiHD (Wireless HD) standard apparently may be finalized in the next six to nine months , assuming licensing for the frequency range it uses doesn't hamstring the entire concept (a minor detail). It'll be curious to see where this notion goes. There's nothing real specific about what its role in the market would be - there might be an opportunity for this to be used in conjunction with HDMI, as a way to pipe video or audio and video from an equipment rack to a remote display or from a surround processor to individual powered speakers almost like we use wireless routers in computer networks. Picture an HDMI cable from surround processor to transmitter and an HDMI cable from receiver to projector (assuming the transmitter and receiver don't have to be integrated into the processor or display). I doubt it would be anything that standalone, but it's a novel application for this sort of wireless tech...

It would certainly be nice if Outlaw could come out with a new fully HDMI-compliant pre/pro at or about the time that the format war gets either settled - or called a draw. Then I'd be ready to buy both it and a truly universal player to boot! Oh yeah - throw in a new 1080p projector as well. I would really like to be able to connect player to pre/pro to projector - all with HDMI cables - and be passing both the highest resolution audio possible and 1080p video at the same time.

I read that the hd dvd players only send dolby true hd in 2 channel, is this true?

Not anymore - Toshiba released a firmware update for both players that expanded TrueHD support to multichannel.

What players and is it worth it?

Both of Toshiba's players got the firmware update (the HD-A1 and the HD-XA1). I think that the HD-A2 and HD-XA2 will also support it, although the HD-A2 won't have a multichannel analog output. I'll leave it to the folks who have some TrueHD material and an HD-DVD player to say how it sounds, but from what I've heard it's certainly nice. Personally, I'm waiting for the format war to shake out a bit more and for a couple generations of hardware to come and go before I dip my toe in the HD optical disc waters.

Gonk, Well said. One thing I am in no hurry to get AV equipment right now my thought is to wait unil the "format war" or maybe some generations down to get AV equipment. Would you agree with that reasoning?

That's very much in line with my own reasoning. If we had a single HD format, the hardware supported all of the features included in the format, and HDMI hardware were already solidly mature in the marketplace, I'd probably be saving pennies to pick a player up (probably a second gen model). With two competing formats, no hardware for either format that fully supports either format's capabilities (although Toshiba's players are getting close these days), and no HDMI v1.3 hardware yet on store shelves, it just feels right to sit back and enjoy my DVD's on a nice DVD player for another year and a half or more before actually investing any money in either new format.

Dolby True Hd from the HD-A1 to the 990 is awesome and it's really hard to go back to regular dolby digital once you get used to it I've listened to Batman Begins, Constantine, Troy, V For Vendetta and a few other true hd tracks and it really is a revelation.

When connecting the HD-A1 with analog audio, do I need to set the speaker size and distance in the player or just leave all speakers set to large and distance at 0 ft? Gonk mentioned that the 990 will still apply bass management but what about the speaker distance? Any other tips?

Thanks,
--Chuck

Leave all distances zero, all speakers large (and sub on), and all channel trims at 0dB. The 990 will take care of it.

I'm trying to setup my A1 and i've left all speakers at large and all settings at 0. The problem is that the A1 seems to output the sub at a much lower level. Maybe i'm missing something somewhere, but how I can increase the sub level only on the 7.1 input to compensate?

If the sub output on the A1 is low, you could simply set the sub trim up on the A1 so it matches the sub output from other sources.

I don't see anyway to set it up that way. On the A1 it only has -12 to 0.

That's odd. And it doesn't help that I didn't see any mention of channel trim in the A1's manual just now. There have been other reports of the sub being as much as 10dB low, but the latest one around here was in September . I assume that you've got the latest firmware installed on the A1?

I do have the latest firmware installed on both the A1 and the 990. I'll have to look at it again. I tried setting it up but it was getting late and I decided to call it a night. Worst case I assume I could just lower all the other channels and raise the volume when I watch movies.

I'll try to check out the sub level from the A1 this weekend and let you know the results. So far, though, I haven't noticed anything odd about the bass level from the A1 versus my CD player.