Hello All,
Maybe this question has been asked before and I apologize if it has.

I am curious to get your opinions of what speakers go well with this system. I currently have at least 16 year old Energy Reference 22 Speakers. (BTW, they still sound pretty good after all these years).

I am looking to eventually get the Outlaw 990 and will also do a speaker upgrade as well. I know you need to speakers and also what sounds good to your ear.

My choices for possible replacements are the Energy's RCR series or possibly Ascends.

Thanks,

Greg

Two good resources for this might be the Your System Saloon (where many people have posted their specific system descriptions and some feedback) and this old thread about what speakers and amps people have paired up with their 990's. The 990/7500 combo should be pretty neutral - the bigger question is probably going to be which speakers you like more, as speaker preferences are a pretty personal taste. I haven't heard much about the Energy speakers you mentioned, but I've heard good things about the Ascends.

Are you into HT or more of a 2 channel person?

For either try the Rockets or Refs at av123.com

I have spent a lot of money on speakers over the last 10 years and finally found some I really love here. I am into HT mostly so I have the Rocket 850's, 200,300's,250's, two UFW10 subs and an SVS Ultra. Have not been to a theater since.

I found a wealth of information at M&K sounds website. Call Barry Ober, head engineer and he will explain a great deal. Great attidude and loves what he does.

They have some nice deals on their online store.

The ears will tell you what you like.

I am a big fan of this company that has a great history.

The answer for me was what would work best for the type of room and listening preference.

There is no right or wrong. Barry actually talked me down from spending more money on M&K's and made suggestions to the effect that "less is more".

Maybe Outlaw will make speakers one day!

Rockets, Axiom, and Orbaudio are direct retailers that people also like. You'd do well with any of those.

Good luck

I went through a lot of speaker changes when I got my 990/7700 combo. First I had Athena Audition Series and found them too bright, I then went with Energy Connasouirs (sp), had 3 of their LCR's up front and it sounded great for HT but was not quite what I was looking for.

I ended up with a set of Onix Reference 1.5's and these were the ticket! They were $1,000 each but I bought them when they were discontinuing them and paid $750 a pair, much easiser to swallow. These were the speakers for me, would love to have a pair of the Onix Reference 3's for the fronts, will have to wait until they discontinue and mark them way down I guess.

I am hoping I can afford those new LS6's, forget the 9's they be too big but boy can you imagine these in your room? Those guys over at AV123 never cease to amaze me. I am running out of room for speakers so I guess it's time to start selling some.

http://www.av123forum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=5219

Well cant get the photo to work here so you will have to use the url above... sorry.

Will my Outlaw 755 handle these things!

I saw some comment at AV123 suggesting that the LS9's would be at least 90dB efficient. If the LS6's are comparable, the 755 should have no problem pushing them as far as they can go.

my sig.

Knownalien: Any reason you not using your 2200's for your front main speakers. I have the same set up and got it that way in case one of the three amps went down for repair I could still have good sound. I figured the smaller seperate amps put the most through being the fronts and such that I would use the single amps. I figure if one is going to go it would be one of those. Cheaper to fix and or replace.
Just an Idea...
Mike

I can't speak for knownalien, but when I got my 7500 I moved my mains from a pair of M200's to the 7500 and found the results to be subtly better with the 7500. We're into a situation where differences are going to be subtle (comparing two very nice amps), but for me the 7500 had the edge.

essentially that's it. I think channel vs channel on the wto amps, the 7500 barely wins out. The cool thing is I could switch, since I have that luxury. Lastly, the soundstage in front is very important and I thought that the soundstage of the 3 front speakers (5 channels, however) needed to come from the same amp. Lastly, I only have 2 mono blocks and yet I bi-amp my 15's.

Got it... That was the first thing I tried for about 2 hours then again a couple weeks down the road switching back and forth but I could not hear a difference. Could be my ears...
Thanks guys
Mike

I am glad to see more happy AV123 customers in this forum. I am running the 990 and 5xM2200 to drive 4x RS1000, a center (RSC200) and a larger sub (SVS PB12+2). I upgraded from a pair of RS750 and a pair of RS550 this year. If you like to listen to music REALLY loud (~110 to 120 dB) without hurting your ears (distortions) this setup does it. The pre/pro and amps do a nice job in handling the speakers without going to their limit (just make sure the amps get enough air when driven harder). Before settling for the ROCKETS I auditioned some Energy, Polk, B&W, M&K, Boston Acoustic, Martin Logan speakers. I also had a set of Aperions powered tower speakers at home (very nice design and pretty good sounding for what they cost). I have to go with MikeLi and say that the ROCKETS impressed me, especially for the price. This is of course very subjective. The nice thing is that you can find local owners (http://www.frappr.com/av123) to audition their setup before ordering some of the ONIX gear. Good luck in finding the right speakers for your ears!

If you're planning on the fun of auditioning new speakers, I'd like to recommend Magnepans. If you've never heard planar speakers, then you owe it to yourself to give them a listen. Put aside all preconceived notions of how a speaker is supposed to look and work. A properly driven maggie is a thing to behold. Check out their website
http://www.magnepan.com/, they have options to fit most budgets, unless you're on a shoestring.

Craigo

I second Craigo87, as he knows. You can audition the smallest Magnepans in your own home for 60 days, then return them for a full refund - no cost to you but freight. The one you can audition is the MMG full-range model; you can see it at Magnepan.com. I did this a few years back and it made a Maggie believer out of me. In a large room with at least a couple of feet behind them - the more the better - they'll literally awe anyone who loves the sound of live music.

Hey Craigo87, I see you have a Velodyne subwoofer with your Maggie 1.6QR's. What crossover frequency do you use, and is the Velo really a worthwhile addition on classical music (apart from pipe organ where it must really add some authority in the pedals)?

I really like my M&K's (see my signature below). They get kudos for their subwoofers and their satellites are terrific. The best description I can use for M&K speakers is that they are accurate. Nalod makes an excellent recommendation to call Barry Ober at M&K. For example, Barry was very helpful with the questions I had about speaker placement. I got the impression he was more interested in getting the setup correct in my room and educating me versus selling M&K products.

The knock against M&K is they can be a little difficult to find in retail stores and slow to fill orders. For example there is only one authorized dealer in the greater San Diego area. However, they do sell direct on-line and I had good experience when I bought my 851s on line (discontinued color at a big discount). Also, enough M&K speakers have been sold so various models regularly show up on ebay and Audiogon. My only recommendation is to listen to M&Ks with their higher performance tweeter (it is square). IMO it is better than their other tweeters.

Most of all, enjoy your search for speakers.

AV,

I started with getting LCR 850's in cherry with black grills on Ebay factory fresh all three for only $800! Then I got a cherry VX850 woofer, also brand new for $550! I thought I was on my way to bargain city as I bought Matching 650's in cherry for $500 bringing in the system for under 2k and feeling good about myself!! ha, the 650s were black and got returned. Then I got with barry and he was great. I had ordered online some real small 25 tripoles and was lookig to add more for 7.1. Instead he talked me into returning them and just get the CS surrounds and go with a better 5.1.

I was planning to get a 970 and a 7125 or a Denon 380.. The I kept reading and thought the 990 was much better. Then in my feeble mind I was thinking why buy a 7 channel amp, just get a 5! So Losing my mind I have a 7500 that I damm near broke my foot getting in the house tonite. Oh, darn that SMS-1 looks so cool, hey why not one of those! And look, the New LFM-1plus is even better than my LFM-1 and that should go in the pool room, so if I order the SMS combo, its only 499! Oh, I need balanced cables, thats $200! From Outlaw, they come in a beautiful zippered virgin plastic case I can display them in . They are really pretty, and heavy! I am worried thieves are not going to steal my equipment, its the darn copper in the cables im worried about. Whose gonna run off with my 250 lb Aconda? or my 80lb amp? And those darn heavy cables!

Oh, I need some new cables, better call Blue jeans, I need three of those, 100 feet of that, two of those, three of that. Oh $hit, thats $400 more in cable.

Man would SACD sound nice! Hey, the oppo what ever only costs $150! But the proper cable is $130! whats up, I spend almost the same on a got damm cable than the player!

Bought a line conditioner on E-bay, It should work right? Just light up and look good!

She asked me if this was gonna be harder to turn on than the last system and my response is to now investigate a universal type remote!

Next time someone should tell me to budget $1000 just for cable and a remote!

I lost my mind! My Wife said don't tell and she won't ask! She kinda knows, but asked me if you spend all this jack at outlaws do they throw in a t-shirt or hat? "Bitch!"

Electrician coming over on saturday to hook up a 20amp line for it. Just to be safe.

I am excited! I just wonder what the hell I am forgetting.

Got a few SACDs on order plus the latest Animusic!

Oh, gotta pay for it!

Gonna have fun this weekend!

I wonder how those M&K's are going to sound?

Oh yeah, Im a big fan of them and have some other of their stuff in the house. Trolled E-bay for two years until some wood veneer 850's came on.

And to think I considered a bose lifstyle system a few months ago! Plug in and 15 min later your ready to go!

Nalod,

Nice post! All the funnier because I've been just where you are and trying to explain "Really, this is just what we need for great sound and we don't need anything more..." at the same time saying Bose is junk. That said my next "need" is an upgrade to my 3-year old 42" plasma when the HD-DVD format war has a probable winner and the plasma (or SED??) monitors with 1080p drop in price. I'm now getting educated on scalers since I can only have a 5.1 system and the 990/ATI 2005 do a fine job with current sound formats.

I think I bid on your cherry 850s. They went through a second auction when it looked like the first one got screwed up. You got a great deal at $800 for the L, C, and R. Sounds like your discussion with Barry Ober closely matched mine; the guy provides great advice.

My ATI 2005 is virtually identical to the Outlaw 7500 and yes, it really takes two people to safely move it into a rack or cabinet. But its worth it, that 300w per channel (at 4 ohms) provides more than enough clean juice to run the M&Ks. It never gets warm, even at fairly high volumes (when the family is not home!).

Oh, I also added a dedicated 20 amp circuit for the HT when we did a kitchen remodel. It isolates all the electronics from my ceiling lights that are on a dimmer. As for cables, I got PO'd at expensive cables that where the wrong length so I learned to make my own. Bluejean uses Canare connectors and coax for their really nice RCA cables. The Canare tools were too expensive so I went with Belden coax and Permaseal connectors; they work well.

If you have all that new gear to set up this weekend you are going to have a great time. You have a fine system that will provide great sound. Let us know how it all works out.

P.S. A universal remote has a high WAF when it is programmed correctly. My Harmony took the edge off the complaints the system was too complicated.

Nalod,

I'm also interested how you like the CS surrounds. What height did you get? Those speakers might be a solution for a family member's problem placing surrounds in their family room.

Great story, Nalod! That's a wild ride, sounds like a super-condensed version of what I did over the course of a couple years not too long ago (speakers, receiver, amp, processor, cables, DVD-Audio, power conditioner, sub, ...). You are putting together what sounds like a great system.

When I added a MX-500 to my system several years ago, my wife declared it to be the best home theater upgrade we'd ever made. The MX-700 (for which I still owe JFro some macro writing notes) is even better. The Harmony remotes (when configured using the web interface rather than the standalone software) are reportedly faster to get set up, at the expense of some level of control over exactly how the macros and things behave. Either can ease the family's pain after the arrival of too many new home theater toys.

Im leaning toward the Harmony as I can cash in some credit card points and not use real money.

I spoke to a dealer out of state looking for cherry 650's and this one guy just started raving on the CS surrounds. He has them in his house. That alone was a big endorsement. Barry said to use the 22's but I went with the 29's as my couch's are fabric and I felt they might eat up a bit of the sound. I could see using 22's if they were leather. Bret at MK also recommended the 29's. The 35's would be too close to listening.

They two are enroute and im not sure if MK was waiting to receive my returns before releasing. I autherized them to just send them out and settle the returns later but Im not sure.

Unfortunatly I won't have much to compare to. This whole system will be new so I won't have the buzz of making improvements over time. This set up will get left alone for some time. I can see replaceing the oppo. I still love my Loewe Aconda even though its getting outdated.

Im stuck with Component input. I think there is always too much hype with video anyway. Content is what matters most.

ANyway I'll review the best I can when its up and running.

psyprof1,

To be honest with you, I haven't put the 1.6QR's into service in my system yet. I purchased them used where I was able to audition them, but they've been stored since. I'm actually going to set them up tonight now that I have the 990. I've been using the sub with my SMGc's. I never turn it up beyond 3, so it just fills in the bottom end.

I listen mostly to jazz and classic rock, and I suspect the 1.6QR's will be better on their own when it comes to critical listening. I'll let you know once I've had a chance to listen to them for awhile. Not sure how things will compare with classical music.

The Magnepan link I provided has a comma attached. Those interested, try this one:
http://www.magnepan.com/

Hey Nalod, I was just telling my wife she "really" needs a subwoofer for her ultimate Christmas present!

Got the CS last nite. Just a visual. Nice build quality. I got the whites as they were heavy discouneted. The color is discontinued. They will be hidden. I went with the 29's.

Everything in my signiture is sitting in boxes in the foyer ready for the weekend. My kids think im a goodfella and it all fell off the truck!
I told them it fell off the UPS truck and I got reciepts to prove Daddy gone crazy!

Had the electrician over yesterday and Friday we'll put in a 20amp circit and run the new speaker wire. out with the old monstercable and in with the 12g blue jeans stuff with a name I never heard of. Its heavy.

What is scarey is taking all this stuff on in one fell swoop! Its a lot to digest. Just reading the IR link for the Monster Power unit kinda got to me. Im like "I gotta worry about how this powers on? I thought this crap was just an overpriced surge supresser with show off lights and a meter that I just plug this crap into!" I think I have a bottle of "Focus Factor" around here somewhere?

I got friday after the electrician is done and all day saturday to get this stuff in. Got company coming saturday nite. Just got the Animusic2 DVD also. Guess what we are watching? Too bad the bong is dry. Its been dry for many many years now. These are the days I remembered why I got married: Shack up and get laid often, have more economic buying power to get a nice stereo (what they called it 20 years ago) and chill out with some nice bong buds. Two kids, mortgages, a couple of business' to tend to, I am only now just getting the "stereo". Not to complain, I got some nice toys. The wife is still hot, the kids are freaking great, and business is good. Oh yeah, and I got my health!

I got the Oppo too yesterday and its a funny little thing. I understand what I bought and what I paid for, but I was not expecting such a little piece of crap. Looks like a DVD player you get at a truck stop for $29.99! I think i have seen better looking stuff at the discontinued isle at the Walgreens! Hey, its how it works right? I look at it as being disposable. Until the format wars are over, this is gonna be a good thing.

By the way The Monster Power thing is really substantial looking. Bought it on Ebay and for $100 bucks it makes a nice looking addition even if you don't use it. Its like the Monty Python skit with the machine that goes "ping". Very impressive! My son gravitated to it and treated it like the "Ark of Power" that will "forth deliver the holy juice to power the music of the gods"! I did notice the angelic sounds when I opened the box! At least it was not my wife moaning "WTF did you blow our budget on now?" IF that was the case the answer would be obvious: "lots of crap to drown you out! Honey buns!"

Hope there is more angelic cooing when the next order of Blue Jeans arrive.

I soon have to think what song I will play first?

Any Ideas? Im thinking "Siberian Katchu" by yes.
Or the new SACD I got (just for such an moment) of "Pictures at an exibition".

Can I have my own forum? We can call it "Newbie Rants". Sounds like a ragamuffin reggae act, but it might be fun to have overwhelmed newbies whom rather than agonize piece by piece save it up and blow it all at once.

I got lots of paperwork today, gotta keep the cash flowgoing! No angel sounds there! Screetching violins horror sounds!

Nalod,

A suggestion while you have the electrician at your house...I wish I had run a Cat 5 wire from my HT equipment to my computer desk. I rip all my music in the FLAC format for ease of burning copies and to archive it. In order to play it through the 990 I use a Linksys router and one of their wireless receivers with an optical output. A Cat 5 wire would have made my life a lot easier since the router/receiver has given me some trouble.

Regarding the Oppo I know what you mean, it does not look that impressive. My Dad has one hooked up via HDMI to a 37" Panasonic plasma. I compared the component to HDMI and the picture was much better with HDMI. I thought the component quality was about the same as my Pioneer 45A on my Hitachi. That said, the Oppo provides options should you get a display that accepts HDMI. In the mean time, it is fine with component and is a decent cd player too.

Barry Ober suggested the CS models to me too. However, they won't work in my room and I use the surround 55s mounted on the side walls slightly behind my listening position (aka a comfortable couch in the middle of the room). The CS is such a unique speaker but it would be a terrific solution to locating surrounds when the couch, er listening position, is against a back wall.

Enjoy setting up your new gear.

AvFan has a good suggestion with the network cable (either Cat5e or even Cat6) if you think you might want to put a network device in the system. Candidates would include media players like the Squeezebox or SoundBridge, game consoles (Xbox, Xbox360, PS2, PS3, Wii), and HD disc players (HD-DVD or Blu-ray). You might even pull a couple network cables, although a single cable and a small hub would give you support for multiple devices at the entertainment center. I had some leftover Cat5e under my desk at work, so a few months ago I pulled a bundle of four network cables from my desk in one corner of the den to the back of the equipment rack in the other corner. So far, the SoundBridge M500 is the only thing using it, but there's a chance that I'll add a game console next year some time.

Oppo's players are definitely tiny and the disc tray made me nervous for the first couple months (although I've quit giving it a second thought now). On the other hand, my 971H is the first DVD player that my wife has ever expressed any fondness for. The two Panasonics and the Yamaha never elicited any comment whatsoever, but she likes the Oppo.

The network cable is an awesom idea. I'm finding things which are wirless can take more time to set up than running a cable and terminating it. Have the electrician run a phone line, too. Could come in handy in the future and it all goes in one plate. I think I'd stay away from the Cat 6 though. Some of my IT buddies say there is a problem with the terminations. Jim

Interesting news about the Cat6 - I've seen a number of buildings in the last couple years that went Cat6 throughout, wonder if the termination problem is a new development. Cat5e should be plenty for residential applications anyway...

This catagory 5 cable, can I get it at HD, Lowes???

Oh, thanks for the advice!!!!

I will take your advice and hit home depot on the way home.

Also I am having a whole house surge supresser put in my breakerbox. Lightning blew up a tree 30 yards from my house over the summer. I acutally saw it happen. It was very cool! But a few yards closer might have really messed me up big time. Microprocessors are in everything now, including the refrigerater and it would suck to have to replace everything.

Still will put surpressors on individual pieces as need be.

I know that Radio Shack carries network cable (both pre-terminated cables and bulk cable that you can terminate into "keystone" snap-in type wall jacks. I think that Home Depot and Lowes carry it too, but I haven't ever looked for it specifically.

Home Depot does carry bulk Cat 5 wire and the keystone jacks Gonk mentioned. I like the idea of a phone line too. You never know how we will receive our digital info in the future.

Home Depot does carry the cable and jacks for the Cat5. They are color coded too. We use the "B" protocol marked on the jack. From back to front, (Front being the side going into the room where you plug into), White/Blue, Blue/White, White/Orange, Orange/White on one side The other side goes White/Green, Green/White White/brown, Brown/White,
back to front. You need a punch down tool, which Home Depot sells a cheap one.

Got it. 50 feet, and jacks!

Already have a phone line but don't use it. I thought I would use it for Satilite but never switched from cable.

What next, intergallactic black hole?

Good tip guys, thanks. Be a while before I start streaming stuff over, but its good to have the infrastructure! I got a whole house surge supressor with phone and cable. It attaches to the breaker box. Got a ton of reading to do.

Must be patient!

http://www.panamax.com/literature/pdf/wholehousesystem.pdf

Please take a look at this persons comment and knowledge of single home power converters/conditioners. I was all set within minutes of starting to call electrictions until I saw and read this. The one whole house sounds good until you read this. I am holding off for now.
Mike

I had a whole house surge protector put in, but still will use protectors at critical areas.

AV fan,

The CS surrounds are freaky good! In SACD recordings your getitng a lot of information and it just blends in very well. IN 5.1 the effects are much larger than the room.

Last nite I was using a demo of Elton John "honky cat" in sacd. I like using familiar music that most people know and it just blows them away with what is happening with the music!

The speakers at the price on MK's site are excellent.

They have a money back policy if you don't like them.

Thanks for the update Nalod! Those CS surrounds are so different from anything else on the market, but they would solve the problem of where to put surrounds when your listening position is up against a back wall. I'm happy the CS surrounds are working out for you and I will recommend them to my family member when they start building their system.

I also have Elton John's Honky Chateau SACD and I like the way it was mixed. I agree it certainly takes advantage of the surrounds.

As a side note, I just bought a pair of M&K Bookshelf 75s off ebay to go with some older Adcom stereo gear (preamp, amp, cd player) I've purchased recently for my daughter. While the 75s don't sound as nice as my current or past M&Ks they are still amazing. They are a bass reflex enclosure and put out an amazing amount of low frequency for the size of the cabinet. They also have M&K's square tweeter which is excellent. The 75s are just another confirmation that M&K makes great speakers at an excellent price-to-value ratio.

Enjoy your system!