Hi all,

I'm looking really hard at the 990 Processor for audio/video for my Polk Rti series and SVS PB12 plus sub. The power source will be the Outlaw 7500 5.1 amp. Recently I have been looking at the Anthem AVM 50 processor and I heard great things about their video scaler through their HDMI inputs. I know the Anthem is 3k more than the 990 but do you guys think it's worth the cost especially when Blue Ray and HD DVD is coming around? The tv I plan to get when it comes out in the fall is the Mitsubishi WD57831. Thanks for your thoughts.

As you've noticed, the AVM50's MSRP of $4,700 is more than four times higher than the 990's $1,100 price tag. True, you should be able to get the AVM50 for less than MSRP, but you can also get the 990 for about $200 less when you get the Model 7500 at the same time. That's just the price issue, though...

The AVM platform has been very good for Anthem, and it has rightfully earned a solid reputation for audio performance. The Gennum scaler in the AVM50 and D2 is apparently a great chip, and Anthem seems to have implemented it nicely. Then there's the fact that the AVM50 has HDMI inputs - but they're only HDMI v1.1, so there are some limits: you'll still have to decode the new formats at the player with Blu-ray and HD-DVD, and you can't get SACD over the HDMI connection unless the player converts the DSD to PCM first - which is currently only done by one player (the Oppo 970). I guess the decision boils down to two questions. One, can you afford the AVM50 now? If you can, it will give you a really good scalar, HDMI v1.1 inputs, and a DAC/analog section that is going to be a bit more robust than the 990's (as befits the much higher price). Two, even if you can afford the AVM50, do you want to get it now or do you want to get something like the 990 now and wait another couple years for the format war to go somewhere and the HDMI standard to get a bit more evolved? For better or for worse, there's no right or wrong answer.

The Anthem is hands down a nicer unit. However, I don't think it is 4-5 times as nice. You've got to sit down and decide if that extra teency bit of transparency is worth quadrupling the cost of your pre-amp. If it was me (and it isn't), I'd probably use that extra $3.5k to upgrade either the speakers or the source components first. The 990 is about as good as it gets without dumping big wads of cash. The Polks are a much weaker link in my view (but it's not my view that matters here...it's yours).

Sounds like it will be a nice system regardless of which direction you take.

Cheers,

If you want to let the format war for HD DVD play out and purchase gear now you could purchase a separate video scaler and use the 990 to handle the audio versus the all-in-one Anthem 50. A little research into the compatibility of the scaler, monitor/TV and DVD player (Oppo 970?) might yield very good results for less money than the Anthem 50 plus more flexibility in the future. Just a thought...

My two cents:
- Buy a good scaler (mine is the HD+ from DVDO, they have been reduced in price), or take the VP unit (HD ready), and never worry about video handling again;
- Concentrating on the sound quality, the 990 is as neutral as processors come, and very very quiet.

I'm with Barend here...the DVDO stuff is *really* nice. I've been looking at the DVDO iScan VP50 recently and it was just such a luscious treat for the eyes (but not the wallet).

http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_isvp50.php

You could buy the 990 and the DVDO unit and have money left over compared to the Anthem. :-)

Cheers,

Thanks guys for the replied. I will look into the video scalers and take it from there.

I had a thought. I've heard good things about the Oppo 970 DVD player with it's up conversion capabilities. Could I input the HDMI from the Oppo 970 directly into the Mitsubishi WD-57831 HDTV and use the 990 for the audio? Will the quality for both audio/video still be excellent? If this is the case I would do that instead and save a ton of money from not buying the AVM50. One last question about amp power. Is the Earthquake Sound Cinenova Grande Five-Channel Power Amplifier over kill versus the 7500? It's basically 200 watts (7500) against the Earthquake 300 Watts both into 8 Ohms. Sorry about the long winded questions.

The audio would be the same regardless (assuming the same processor and amp) of how the video is routed. IMO, with a 990, 7500 (my ATI 2005 is pratically identical to the 7500), and my M&Ks the audio is excellent. I'm sure there are some Polk owners that can let you know how they perform with the 990 and an Outlaw multichannl amp.

I have set a family members video (with an Oppo 970) in the same way you describe in your question. As I understand it the Oppo puts out a 480i signal via the HDMI output to the TV. The picture quality using HDMI was much better than using the component inputs from the Oppo to the TV.

I think the real benefit of the Oppo 970 is the digital video output when used with a scaler. The right scaler, TV and dvd player will yield much better video. Maybe the folks using a scaler or understand scalers better than me can weigh in, but I think it is possible to achieve higher resolutions (720p and 1080i?) using a scaler with 480i output from a dvd like the Oppo 970.

The Oppo 970 uses a Mediatek chip for its video processing work (both deinterlacing and scaling), but the HDMI output allowed Oppo to provide a 480i digital video output - which, as AvFan says, is a very popular option among video scaler users. It can also output 480p, 720p, and 1080i - although in many cases the older Oppo player (the 971, which uses a Faroudja chip for the scaling duties) can achieve a better picture quality.

Really, the issue here is what mechanism you use to convert DVD's 480i video to a resolution that will work with an HDTV. No matter what route you choose, it's still a 480i source - you can't add data, but you can expand that data more efficiently. HDTV's include scalers built in to them to do this for any 480i source, but they aren't necessarily the best tools for the job. DVD players like the Oppos may often have better scalers than the TV, but dedicated scalers like DVDO, VP, or the Gennum chip that Anthem uses are going to be better than either alternative.

Please bear in mind that higher resolutions only benefit screens that can handle it.
My Panasonic plasma TH42PWD6EX (3 years old now and still shining) has not got enough pixels to handle more than 576p (PAL).
So there''s no improvement when dialing 1080p in DVI mode, which is calculated down inside the Plasma.
Still, 720p gives a slight improvement over 480/576.
That said, a good scaler beats any DVD's picture quality and tweaking options.
I am VERY happy with my DVDO, and I just noted they do reconditioned units of the HD+ around
$500, so if you don't need HD go for it...
Lenexpo als offers DVDO units http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/

How does the DVDO connection work with the dvd player, the 990 processor and the tv?

I have had the 990 and now have the AVM30 (AVM50 minus the video processing/HDMI inputs). I would agree with others here that the Anthems are not 4 times better than the Outlaw as the price might suggest. There is a very noticable difference between the 990 and the AVM30 (at least to me).

The AVM30 might be a good place for you to start with the audio for now. I picked mine up used for less than twice the price of the 990. As far as audio goes, there is just not anything the Anthems don't have.

I have read a few threads on AVS about the AVM50 and there have been some issues with the units. The AVM30 will have an upgrade to make the unit an AVM50 in the near future. My philosophy was pick up the AVM30 used now, wait for them to work out the bugs occurring with the AVM50, then upgrade the AVM30. Even though I will have to send my AVM30 directly to Anthem for the upgrade (no discount this way unfortunately as I don't think my local dealer will touch it since I didn't buy it from them) I will still end up with an AVM50 for under $3500 when all is said and done.

The Outlaw 990 is a great unit, but in the end it just didn't have the features/sound I was looking for. The Anthem is the first unit I have owned in a long time that has not left me wishing I had a feature that wan't there. The sound quality is better than anything else I have heard as well (not that I have heard a ton or high-end gear or anything to compare with though).

I upgraded from my Sherwood Newcastle P-965 to an Anthem D2. Reportedly, the P-965 (which the 990 is based on) sounds very similar to the 990. The Anthem was a major step up but also way more expensive..

The D2 has the same video processor but is supposed to have better audio than the 50 but I digress....Was it worth the money. In my opinion - absolutely. That being said, I really loved the sound of my Sherwood and unless you need the scaler and HDMI switching I think you would be satisfied with the 990. It is an incredible value for the money. If budget is not a real issue and you can comfortably afford it then I highly recommend the Anthem.

@dixlon
You can feed your audio through the HD+ and back into the 990, but I chose to handle A+V separately, 990 gets no video at all; I can switch inputs through my Pronto remote by switching the audio for the 990 and the video for the scaler.
Hope this helps?

As for the 990 sound quality:
I looked at the frequency response for the unit, and it's straight as a ruler.
Although there's more to sound quality than just the response (macro- and microdynamics, noise & hum) IMHO the 990 is the best example of "the straight wire" version of any receiver or preamp I heard thus far.
I connected my CDP to the CD input and switched over to direct feed into my Arcam P7 final amp (through an ALPS potentiometer) and I could not hear any difference, with no 990 "bypass" setting applied.
And I listened to some big Mahler symphonies, plus a Cecilia Bartoli disc, and dynamics seemed fine.
Now it's possible that some people prefer a colored sound of some sort, warmer, more analytical or with the pronounced 2nd harmonics of the "tuby" sound, but IMO a pre should be as linear as possible, with an accessible tone control (sorry for the blasphemy!).
What I would like to know is in what respect the AVM units sound better, and I certainly don't mean this as a criticism!
All said, there are brands with a specific sound, I am pretty sure of the "Arcam sound", can't lay my hand on it, but it's there!

@Barend.. Thanks for your reply. I get your point about the 990. My next question is it a big hassle to use the 990 for audio only and the VP for video only? Do I have to change back in forth or can I use my Harmony 880 remote to handle these functions with one click of a button? As for the feed. Example a dvd player. The HDMI video goes to the VP scaler and the audio Coaxial digital cable goes to the 990. Am I correct on this? Thanks for your help.

The Harmony should be able to provide the macros necessary to switch both the 990 and the VP with a single button. The DVDO units all have discrete input selection commands on their remotes.

As for the wiring, I think you've got it correct: run audio from each source to the 990 (digital audio for sources like DVD or HD cable/satellite, or analog if the source doesn't offer a digital output) and run video from each source to the scaler (either HDMI/DVI for sources that offer it or component, s-video, or composite if that's all that's available from that source).

Talking about macros got me thinking... A video scaler that could integrate with the 990 via RS232 and switch automatically would be pretty slick...

Quick questions.
1. What connection, if any is there between the 990 and the scaler?
2. Can a Direct tv receiver with component outputs be connected to the scaler and will the scaler improve the picture to a 1080P HDTV?
Am I better off getting the AVM50 and not have to worry about building macros for audio/video for my Harmony 880 remote or is it worth the hassle?
Thanks

There doesn't really need to be any connection between the two. Any video source can be connected to the scaler, but I'll have to let others with scalers comment on how much difference they can make (and how to best configure the video sources - I suspect it'd be best to minimize the amount of video "tinkering" the DirecTV or cable box does so that the scaler can do all the real work). The macros themselves should be very simple - instead of sending the signal to the 990 asking it to switch to the "video2" or "DVD" input, you simply send that command along with a command to the scaler to switch to the corresponding video input.

Thanks for the input Gonk. I can now visualize how a video scaler works with the 990. I can also see how I can save money by buying the 990 and a video Scaler - VP over the AVM50

Just build two combined commands into your choice remote, for switching video on the scaler and for switching audio on the 990.
You only need one video cable from your 990 to the scaler, for displaying the 990 setup, composite is good enough.
One thing- you won't see the volume setting and other 990 popups on your screen anymore, you have to select the 990 video input on the scaler.

If you're using DVI inputs you don't get those overlays anyway.

Cheers,

Actually, you won't get the volume setting and popups with component inputs, either - just composite and s-video.