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#61690 - 08/13/06 03:01 PM Re: 990 Balanced Outputs?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I do think that we'll eventually see digital amps become the standard - the energy efficiency improvement solves a number of pesky problems (size, heat, weight, electrical consumption) too conveniently for it to not catch on at some point. On the other hand, it's still a young technology that is trying to compete with a very well-established technology. It'll be a lot of years before I expect to put digital amplification in my system since the pesky problems that it solves aren't actually bothering me at the moment and the solid state amps that I have are doing just fine. Give it a few years, though, and the prices should drop at the same time the performance consistently rises to make digital amps something I'd consider recommending to someone else who was just starting to build a system.
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#61691 - 08/14/06 06:28 AM Re: 990 Balanced Outputs?
Ritz Offline
Desperado

Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 547
Loc: NJ/Beijing
Quote:
Originally posted by wingnut4772:
I think that amp manufacturers really need something new to get people to buy new amps. If you think about, it the amplifier portion of our systems is the one thing that really does not need upgrading. New bells and whistles, surround technology etc. has not really applied to the amplifier - one of the reasons separates are so appealing. The fact that the industry has come up with something 'new and improved' just makes me suspicious until it is way proven.
That's the attitude folks had when it was time to move from tubes to solid state. To this day, there are still die hards that say "tubes are better" and "there is no need to upgrade" and will spend thousands to put antique NOS tubes in their equipment. You could also make the same argument that a 1963 Corvair is just as good a grocery hauler as a Toyota Prius if you're willing to overlook enough warts. Time marches on.

Digital amplification is the next logical step. It sounds AT LEAST as good and is substantially more efficient. Unfortunately, when people hear about digital amps, they think of cheap class D designs (psst...open up your LFM and have a look at the amp) which tend not to sound that great and not more robust "audiophile" designs. If I'm going to foot the bill for the electricity, I'd rather those electrons be used to drive my speakers than to be radiated as heat by an inefficient amp. My next amp is definitely going to be digital (probably TACT or Lyngdorf).

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#61692 - 08/29/06 05:18 PM Re: 990 Balanced Outputs?
logogogue Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 9
Loc: NYC
There are merits to Class D amps. Two brands that I have come to appreciate are NuForce-Ref9 and BelCanto-Ref1000. I wasn't completely blown away by the BelCanto but there is a place for it in systems because it is a very capable amp. (I preferred the NuForce more, although technically it isn't Class D. It uses "switching" technology.) A lot of it depends on your installation - I had to look at it from a form factor and heat POV for an install I am in the process of designing. I am not in a position to stack a lot of ClassA/B amps for 7 channels, plus I don't have the option to vent/cool the rack so Class D are a very interesting prospect. I am sure with the right amount of tuning and wall treatments, I will have the room sounding excellent whether I go with the Bel's or the NuForce. However with that said, I personally use a Rotel RMB-1090 amp with the 990 at home and am very happy with the results; based on the constraints and limitations I have to work with. I also use balanced cables from the 990 to the RMB-1090 only because I had them but using unbalanced Purist Audio cables were just as quiet. Perhaps there is a tad more air with single-ended cables but I didn't spend enough time with it to compare. If you have a long run, great use the balanced cables, but if it is about a meter apart, just pick up unbalanced cables and you should be satisfied with the results. Ultimately it does come down to listening. Pick up the 990, listen to it and if you are happy... who cares whether you have class A,B,D,K,Z... blah, blah, you know? I have a feeling that you will be very satisfied with what you got and the new 990.
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Gear:
Outlaw/990
Rotel/RMB1095
Marantz/DV8400
MusicHall/CD25
Rega/P3
Panasonic/TH-50PX600U
Musical Fidelity/X-DAC,X-10,X-Can,X-PSU (v3)
Bellari/VP129
Epos/M22,M8,M5
Hsu/VTF1
Monster/HTS3500MKII
PAD/Museaus:Cardas/Cross

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#61693 - 09/01/06 05:00 PM Re: 990 Balanced Outputs?
knownalien Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 96
Quote:
designs (psst...open up your LFM and have a look at the amp)
yes, even SVS's sub's website says it uses a digital amp.
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Outlaw 990 PreAmp
Outlaw 7500 5 Channel Amp
Two Outlaw 2200 M-Block Amps - for the Surrounds
Oppo OPPO DV-981
Polk LSi15 Fronts
Polk LSiC Center
Polk LSi9 Surrounds
SVS PC-Plus 20-39 (newest addition down to 16hz) Subwoofer
Sony KDF-50WE655 50" LCD

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#61694 - 09/01/06 05:35 PM Re: 990 Balanced Outputs?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Class D has been a standard choice on subs for a long time now - SVS, Outlaw, Hsu, Axiom, Velodyne, and many others. Amp manufacturers have had good luck getting good performance out of class D at the low frequencies that are subwoofers' territory. It's taken a lot longer to migrate from the bottom octaves to the full spectrum, but they're getting there. While they work on it, though, I'm quite content to let my good ol' solid state amps crank out the tunes. smile
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#61695 - 09/01/06 08:30 PM Re: 990 Balanced Outputs?
knownalien Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally posted by gonk:
Class D has been a standard choice on subs for a long time now - SVS, Outlaw, Hsu, Axiom, Velodyne, and many others. Amp manufacturers have had good luck getting good performance out of class D at the low frequencies that are subwoofers' territory. It's taken a lot longer to migrate from the bottom octaves to the full spectrum, but they're getting there. While they work on it, though, I'm quite content to let my good ol' solid state amps crank out the tunes. smile
I agree. without getting into the aural effects inherent in the LFE territory, needless to say, it is the mid to high frequency spectrum that demands the utmost clarity. Can calss D's provide this? I have no idea. In a general sort of way, I am not sure I buy into the whole "digitized" kinda of sanitized concept. Think of MP3. I am tested at being able to hear well above 20 kHz. Maybe I am a freak, but even if not those frequencies are said to be "felt" in one way or another by concentrated listeners. Maybe "perceived" is a better word. I can also hear well below 20 hz. In short, the whole MP3 revolution, though great for disk space (which is a nonsequitor at this point) has killed off that format of music forme.
_________________________
Outlaw 990 PreAmp
Outlaw 7500 5 Channel Amp
Two Outlaw 2200 M-Block Amps - for the Surrounds
Oppo OPPO DV-981
Polk LSi15 Fronts
Polk LSiC Center
Polk LSi9 Surrounds
SVS PC-Plus 20-39 (newest addition down to 16hz) Subwoofer
Sony KDF-50WE655 50" LCD

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#61696 - 09/07/06 09:47 PM Re: 990 Balanced Outputs?
dbissett Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/10/01
Posts: 31
Loc: Houston TX
Speaking of Class D amps has anyone auditioned any of Rotel's Class D amps? I've only tried to research the 7-channel model, RMB-1077, and it got quite a good review here....http://www.guidetohometheater.com/amplifiers/506rotel/. The cost seems quite high, however, at $2500 for 100w/ch compared to Outlaw equivalents, and I don't need the small size/weight benefit.

Dave
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#61697 - 09/15/06 08:16 AM Re: 990 Balanced Outputs?
logogogue Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 9
Loc: NYC
Hello,
My apologies as part of my info above was not entirely correct. Both NuForce and BelCanto use "switching" technology. At any rate, the choice is BelCanto. I am installing two: Ref1000's, three: M300's and one: S300. (everything will be balanced, where applicable.)The room won't be ready for another month or so but will post up impressions after it is tweaked out. I can't disclose all the information on room specifics yet but if you are all interested, I can post a full listing later. The equipment in total will be valued around the six figure range. So needless to say, it should be a fun install.
_________________________
Gear:
Outlaw/990
Rotel/RMB1095
Marantz/DV8400
MusicHall/CD25
Rega/P3
Panasonic/TH-50PX600U
Musical Fidelity/X-DAC,X-10,X-Can,X-PSU (v3)
Bellari/VP129
Epos/M22,M8,M5
Hsu/VTF1
Monster/HTS3500MKII
PAD/Museaus:Cardas/Cross

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