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#61183 - 07/15/06 06:31 AM Re: 990/7700 Combo
barend Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 112
@candyman
I would always go for balanced as it removes most of the hum and other common mode disturbances.
No need to buy expensive cables, I found the common and garden variety is just as good, as long as the plugs are screened.

@all
Does the 990 remember the previous surround mode for any given input, or must this be dialed in every time?

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#61184 - 07/15/06 09:16 AM Re: 990/7700 Combo
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
The 990 does remember the previous surround mode used on any given input for any particular input format (Dolby Digital 2.0, DD 5.1, PCM, DTS, ...).
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#61185 - 07/17/06 05:53 PM Re: 990/7700 Combo
The Hun Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 59
Loc: Riverside
Gonk,
How about if say I overlay PLIIx over DD on the DVD input, but I want PLII music[not X]on the CD input.Would the 990 recall that? Would you try that on your 990 just to be sure?
thanks!

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#61186 - 07/17/06 09:20 PM Re: 990/7700 Combo
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
First, Pro Logic II and IIx are essentially the same thing - whether you have one or the other is dependent solely on whether or not you have surround back speakers. I tested that by setting my 990 to the cable input, flipping to Discovery HD for a DD source (at the moment of the test it was a DD 2.0 source), and toggling the surround backs off - the active surround mode changed from PLIIx-Movie to PLII-Movie.

Second test, which I think is more along the lines of what you wanted to know... Let's say that you wanted to use PLIIx-Movie for watching TV (which is my standard approach) but wanted to use PLIIx-Music for CD's. I stayed with my cable input, changed to TNT-HD for a DD 5.1 this time (although by this time, after a break to re-assure Kate that it was OK to go to sleep, Discovery HD was also playing a DD 5.1 broadcast). In that case, my 990 applies DD+PLIIx-Movie. Then I set my front input to the optical 1 and DVD component inputs (so as not to monkey with my normal CD input, which is set to upsample) and set it to use PLIIx-Music with the CD that was playing at the time. I could toggle between inputs to my heart's content: Cable stayed DD+PLIIx-Movie (or PLIIx-Movie for PCM and DD 2.0 stations), and Video5 stayed PLIIx-Music.

Interesting discovery during this: Upsample works for more cases than I'd previously realized. Check this out: Take a Dolby Digital 5.1 source and toggle through "Stereo" modes until you get to Upsample (you'll run past 2-channel downmix and bypass, if memory serves) - you'll end up with the full Dolby Digital 5.1 active with Upsample applied. There's no way to select an additional surround mode (such as PLIIx) without turning Upsample off, but I'd previously assumed that Upsample was limited to PCM stereo. It's possible that flagged Dolby EX tracks would still kick in Dolby EX with upsample in the loop, but that's just a guess - I haven't tried it. Maybe I'll try Dolby EX, DTS, and DTS ES one of these days to see if they all work with Upsample as well...

Last comment of the night (I've got work to do and transplanted hostas to water): I'll summarize the way that I've ended up configuring both my 990 (and to a degree my 950 before it, although I used Cirrus Extra Surround instead of PLIIx and stereo instead of upsample in that case): DVD and HD cable are set up basically the same. Dolby Digital 5.1 sources get DD+PLIIx-Movie. Dolby Digital 2.0 and PCM stereo sources get PLIIx-Movie as well. DTS 5.1 sources get DTS+PLIIx-Movie. Dolby Digital EX and DTS ES Discrete sources both will typically force their processing modes, so those end up Dolby EX or DTS ES. CD sources are played back in upsampled stereo (although this evening I'm going to leave it on PLIIx-Music just for kicks). Tuner gets either stereo or 7-Stereo depending on my mood and the circumstances. Oh, and the iPod input (used mainly for background music during gatherings) gets 7-Stereo as well.
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#61187 - 07/17/06 10:33 PM Re: 990/7700 Combo
The Hun Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 59
Loc: Riverside
Quote:
Second test, which I think is more along the lines of what you wanted to know... Let's say that you wanted to use PLIIx-Movie for watching TV (which is my standard approach) but wanted to use PLIIx-Music for CD's. I stayed with my cable input, changed to TNT-HD for a DD 5.1 this time (although by this time, after a break to re-assure Kate that it was OK to go to sleep, Discovery HD was also playing a DD 5.1 broadcast). In that case, my 990 applies DD+PLIIx-Movie. Then I set my front input to the optical 1 and DVD component inputs (so as not to monkey with my normal CD input, which is set to upsample) and set it to use PLIIx-Music with the CD that was playing at the time. I could toggle between inputs to my heart's content: Cable stayed DD+PLIIx-Movie (or PLIIx-Movie for PCM and DD 2.0 stations), and Video5 stayed PLIIx-Music.
This is not what I asked. PLIIX music employs all 7 speakers[+sub] as I have, PLII Music employs 5[+sub], and they sound none alike, which why I was specific about it.
See the reason I asked this because I have A Boston Acoustics receiver which is based on the same Sherwood/Outlaw platform, as far as the DSP engine goes, and this receiver will stock in the PLIIX mode in all digital inputs, once it's selected at any one of them. So I wondered if the 990 would behave differently in the SAME exact situation as the Boston.

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#61188 - 07/17/06 11:01 PM Re: 990/7700 Combo
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
An addendum to my Upsample comment (taking a break from work and a few chores): it does also work with Dolby EX and DTS ES when the bitstream contains flags that call for those modes.

From all I've ever read, Pro Logic IIx should be identical to Pro Logic II except for the presence of the two surround back speakers - technically, PLIIx is an extension of PLII that uses the same matrix decoding but adds an additional step to produce discrete surround back channels. I would be surprised to find a significant difference in sound unless you are talking about the effect produced by the additional speakers (which may in fact be what you are talking about, in which case I would agree that there will be definite differences).

Does the Boston allow you to select either Pro Logic IIx or Pro Logic II processing when surround back speakers are enabled?

Two more tests before I go back to my plans. First, a Dolby Digital 2.0 source. The options offered by toggling through the Dolby mode button are Dolby Digital+Dolby VS 5-SP Wide (which is a five-channel mode), Pro Logic IIx Movie, and Pro Logic IIx Music. Stereo mode button options are Stereo and Upsample. Second, a PCM stereo source. The options for Dolby mode button are Pro Logic IIx Movie, Pro Logic IIx Music, and Pro Logic II Movie+Dolby VS 5-SP Wide (a five-channel mode that I've never messed with). Stereo mode options are stereo, bypass, upsample, 7-stereo, and 5-stereo. DTS mode button options are DTS NEO:6 Music and DTS NEO:6 Cinema. From all that I've done with the 990, I've found that the 990 will remember any one of these modes for a specific signal format on a specific input - telling it to apply Dolby VS 5-SP Wide (which the manual says can be "used to expand the soundfield when front left and right speakers are positioned close to TV") to a Dolby 2.0 source on the VIDEO1 input will not affect how it processes Dolby 2.0 sources on the DVD input. A specific example (again from my normal mode of operation): PCM Stereo on the CD input is processed in Upsample mode, but PCM stereo on the Cable input is processed Pro Logic IIx-Movie. It sounds like this is not the case with the BA receiver - a condition that would drive me just a bit nuts since I like using Pro Logic IIx processing for PCM sources from my HD cable box but not from my CD's. That there are differences in this sort of behavior is not terribly shocking: the 990 shares the core hardware with the Sherwood platform that the BA is built on, but I don't think much of the Sherwood firmware was re-used for the 990. After all, the menu structure and bass management are both substantially different, and there's no telling what differences lie deeper under the hood.
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#61189 - 07/28/06 06:01 PM Re: 990/7700 Combo
The Hun Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 59
Loc: Riverside
Quote:
I would be surprised to find a significant difference in sound unless you are talking about the effect produced by the additional speakers (which may in fact be what you are talking about, in which case I would agree that there will be definite differences).
Yep.
Quote:
Does the Boston allow you to select either Pro Logic IIx or Pro Logic II processing when surround back speakers are enabled?
Yes for IIx[say like DD+PLX movies] and presumably it uses PLII for EX duties.

Thanks, looks like the 990, is more "inteligent" then the BA, yes I have to toggle back and forward on my remote to defeat PLIIX when I want to listen to cd's, or if I want the PLIIX again when I watch DVD's.

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#61190 - 07/29/06 08:38 AM Re: 990/7700 Combo
grimster Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 153
Loc: Somewhere in Virginia
Well, I finally got around to pulling the trigger on the 990/7700 combo just this morning. Been meaning to do so for over a week but just never got around to doing so. So, it is official, order placed this morning and looking forward to its arrival. Hope the two units are close in color though, I'm real picky about such things, call it anal or whatever.
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#61191 - 07/31/06 07:07 AM Re: 990/7700 Combo
grimster Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 153
Loc: Somewhere in Virginia
Okay, if I placed the order on this combo on 7/29/2006 SHOULD I see this combo in my basement by this weekend 8/5/2006? My wife has to work Saturday and what better time to get everything hooked up and running before she gets home to tell me, "thats too loud".
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#61192 - 07/31/06 08:09 AM Re: 990/7700 Combo
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
The amp's going to come from the west coast, so it may be a week in transit to the east coast. The 990 ships out of Massachusetts, I believe, so you'll have it this week for sure.
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