Just a week or so ago I posted about adding a dedicated amplifier to my current setup. Well after many days of researching I think I'm going to purchase both the 990 and 7700 combo and just be done with it. My question here today is about the 990 pre/pro. Has Outlaw worked all the bugs out of the software update. Just don't want to spend this kind of money on something if all I'm going to do is download a buggy software. I just keep seeing where alot of people can't get the auto-config to work properly. Thanks in advance.

grimster,

Can't help you about the updates. I'm still on the fence.

What I would like to ask is that if you go that route, please try the 7700 with your 3805 and then replace the 3805 with the 990. I would like to know what you think about how the 990 compares to the 3805. I have the 3805 and a Monster 3250 3 channel, but thinking about the 990 or 970.

Bug

I agree, the 990/3805 comparison would definitely be interesting.

At this point, there are several features that people have expressed an interest in but that Outlaw has not yet implemented. As far as bugs, they've made a pretty thorough pass through. Bass management had some bugs in certain arrangements, but that has been resolved at this point. Auto-setup has given folks some trouble, but Scott posted instructions that should resolve that trouble in general - basically, he said to make a first pass through your bass management settings before firing up the auto-setup. There may be firmware updates in the future, of course, but at this point I think the focus for those would be improving or adding functionality rather than fixing bugs.

Gonk

What functionaliy inprovements would you like to see in future updates? What do you think outlaw will be focasing on?

Do you think that the 990 is future proof? will it be able to do dts HD and dolby digital HD through a software update or maybe even a hardware upgrade. (change or and a card)

Gonk

What functionaliy inprovements would you like to see in future updates? What do you think outlaw will be focasing on?

Do you think that the 990 is future proof? will it be able to do dts HD and dolby digital HD through a software update or maybe even a hardware upgrade. (change or and a card)

Outlaw hasn't ruled out auto-EQ, which is a popular choice (although not one that I've felt a burning need for based on some information I've looked at). The biggest functionality improvements I wanted are in place (sync button displays sync setting on the front panel; surround modes display the current mode the first time you press them). I wouldn't mind seeing an option to select analog bypass for the 7.1 input, although from my listening tests I don't feel a need to use it myself.

I think the 990 is very future proof. The DVI switching gives you a way to handle multiple DVI/HDMI video sources. The new audio formats offered by HD-DVD or Blu-ray will be available at multichannel analog outputs indefinitely because of the sheer size of the installed user base that needs those analog outputs. My HDMI FAQ spells out all the nasty details of delivering any sort of digital signal with the new audio formats (Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD). It would take a significant hardware upgrade to add HDMI v1.1 or higher to get even the decoded PCM of those formats (or the only barely official v1.3 to get bitstreams). An upgrade doing just that for Anthem's AVM's costs about as much as a complete Model 970 - there's a lot involved under the hood that was basically too uncertain to try to include in the 990 when it was developed.

Hey guys, when you order this combo does the combo come with the remote trigger cable that runs from the pre/pro to the amplifier? Pretty dumb questions but just trying to get everything in order so when I do order the combo which should be next week I have everything to hook it up.

Not a dumb question at all - and it'll help your planning to know that Outlaw includes a trigger cable with each of their multichannel amps. It'll be hiding somewhere in the box with the 7700.

Thanks gonk, I've made the decision to go ahead and order the BALANCED connectors also that way I can do a side by side compairason of the two types of connections. Looking forward to the new make over in my home theater.

Grimster, I'd be interested in your comparison between the RCA and balanced connectors between your 990 and 7700. I'm considering the purchase of balanced connectors for my 990 and 7500.

Rob

@candyman
I would always go for balanced as it removes most of the hum and other common mode disturbances.
No need to buy expensive cables, I found the common and garden variety is just as good, as long as the plugs are screened.

@all
Does the 990 remember the previous surround mode for any given input, or must this be dialed in every time?

The 990 does remember the previous surround mode used on any given input for any particular input format (Dolby Digital 2.0, DD 5.1, PCM, DTS, ...).

Gonk,
How about if say I overlay PLIIx over DD on the DVD input, but I want PLII music[not X]on the CD input.Would the 990 recall that? Would you try that on your 990 just to be sure?
thanks!

First, Pro Logic II and IIx are essentially the same thing - whether you have one or the other is dependent solely on whether or not you have surround back speakers. I tested that by setting my 990 to the cable input, flipping to Discovery HD for a DD source (at the moment of the test it was a DD 2.0 source), and toggling the surround backs off - the active surround mode changed from PLIIx-Movie to PLII-Movie.

Second test, which I think is more along the lines of what you wanted to know... Let's say that you wanted to use PLIIx-Movie for watching TV (which is my standard approach) but wanted to use PLIIx-Music for CD's. I stayed with my cable input, changed to TNT-HD for a DD 5.1 this time (although by this time, after a break to re-assure Kate that it was OK to go to sleep, Discovery HD was also playing a DD 5.1 broadcast). In that case, my 990 applies DD+PLIIx-Movie. Then I set my front input to the optical 1 and DVD component inputs (so as not to monkey with my normal CD input, which is set to upsample) and set it to use PLIIx-Music with the CD that was playing at the time. I could toggle between inputs to my heart's content: Cable stayed DD+PLIIx-Movie (or PLIIx-Movie for PCM and DD 2.0 stations), and Video5 stayed PLIIx-Music.

Interesting discovery during this: Upsample works for more cases than I'd previously realized. Check this out: Take a Dolby Digital 5.1 source and toggle through "Stereo" modes until you get to Upsample (you'll run past 2-channel downmix and bypass, if memory serves) - you'll end up with the full Dolby Digital 5.1 active with Upsample applied. There's no way to select an additional surround mode (such as PLIIx) without turning Upsample off, but I'd previously assumed that Upsample was limited to PCM stereo. It's possible that flagged Dolby EX tracks would still kick in Dolby EX with upsample in the loop, but that's just a guess - I haven't tried it. Maybe I'll try Dolby EX, DTS, and DTS ES one of these days to see if they all work with Upsample as well...

Last comment of the night (I've got work to do and transplanted hostas to water): I'll summarize the way that I've ended up configuring both my 990 (and to a degree my 950 before it, although I used Cirrus Extra Surround instead of PLIIx and stereo instead of upsample in that case): DVD and HD cable are set up basically the same. Dolby Digital 5.1 sources get DD+PLIIx-Movie. Dolby Digital 2.0 and PCM stereo sources get PLIIx-Movie as well. DTS 5.1 sources get DTS+PLIIx-Movie. Dolby Digital EX and DTS ES Discrete sources both will typically force their processing modes, so those end up Dolby EX or DTS ES. CD sources are played back in upsampled stereo (although this evening I'm going to leave it on PLIIx-Music just for kicks). Tuner gets either stereo or 7-Stereo depending on my mood and the circumstances. Oh, and the iPod input (used mainly for background music during gatherings) gets 7-Stereo as well.

This is not what I asked. PLIIX music employs all 7 speakers[+sub] as I have, PLII Music employs 5[+sub], and they sound none alike, which why I was specific about it.
See the reason I asked this because I have A Boston Acoustics receiver which is based on the same Sherwood/Outlaw platform, as far as the DSP engine goes, and this receiver will stock in the PLIIX mode in all digital inputs, once it's selected at any one of them. So I wondered if the 990 would behave differently in the SAME exact situation as the Boston.

An addendum to my Upsample comment (taking a break from work and a few chores): it does also work with Dolby EX and DTS ES when the bitstream contains flags that call for those modes.

From all I've ever read, Pro Logic IIx should be identical to Pro Logic II except for the presence of the two surround back speakers - technically, PLIIx is an extension of PLII that uses the same matrix decoding but adds an additional step to produce discrete surround back channels. I would be surprised to find a significant difference in sound unless you are talking about the effect produced by the additional speakers (which may in fact be what you are talking about, in which case I would agree that there will be definite differences).

Does the Boston allow you to select either Pro Logic IIx or Pro Logic II processing when surround back speakers are enabled?

Two more tests before I go back to my plans. First, a Dolby Digital 2.0 source. The options offered by toggling through the Dolby mode button are Dolby Digital+Dolby VS 5-SP Wide (which is a five-channel mode), Pro Logic IIx Movie, and Pro Logic IIx Music. Stereo mode button options are Stereo and Upsample. Second, a PCM stereo source. The options for Dolby mode button are Pro Logic IIx Movie, Pro Logic IIx Music, and Pro Logic II Movie+Dolby VS 5-SP Wide (a five-channel mode that I've never messed with). Stereo mode options are stereo, bypass, upsample, 7-stereo, and 5-stereo. DTS mode button options are DTS NEO:6 Music and DTS NEO:6 Cinema. From all that I've done with the 990, I've found that the 990 will remember any one of these modes for a specific signal format on a specific input - telling it to apply Dolby VS 5-SP Wide (which the manual says can be "used to expand the soundfield when front left and right speakers are positioned close to TV") to a Dolby 2.0 source on the VIDEO1 input will not affect how it processes Dolby 2.0 sources on the DVD input. A specific example (again from my normal mode of operation): PCM Stereo on the CD input is processed in Upsample mode, but PCM stereo on the Cable input is processed Pro Logic IIx-Movie. It sounds like this is not the case with the BA receiver - a condition that would drive me just a bit nuts since I like using Pro Logic IIx processing for PCM sources from my HD cable box but not from my CD's. That there are differences in this sort of behavior is not terribly shocking: the 990 shares the core hardware with the Sherwood platform that the BA is built on, but I don't think much of the Sherwood firmware was re-used for the 990. After all, the menu structure and bass management are both substantially different, and there's no telling what differences lie deeper under the hood.

Yep.
Yes for IIx[say like DD+PLX movies] and presumably it uses PLII for EX duties.

Thanks, looks like the 990, is more "inteligent" then the BA, yes I have to toggle back and forward on my remote to defeat PLIIX when I want to listen to cd's, or if I want the PLIIX again when I watch DVD's.

Well, I finally got around to pulling the trigger on the 990/7700 combo just this morning. Been meaning to do so for over a week but just never got around to doing so. So, it is official, order placed this morning and looking forward to its arrival. Hope the two units are close in color though, I'm real picky about such things, call it anal or whatever.

Okay, if I placed the order on this combo on 7/29/2006 SHOULD I see this combo in my basement by this weekend 8/5/2006? My wife has to work Saturday and what better time to get everything hooked up and running before she gets home to tell me, "thats too loud".

The amp's going to come from the west coast, so it may be a week in transit to the east coast. The 990 ships out of Massachusetts, I believe, so you'll have it this week for sure.

That stinks, what good is a pre/pro without an amplifier.

You should have tracking numbers in the next day or so that'll give you more specific information, that's just my best guess.

Well, tomorrow I'll be taking delivery of not only my Outlaw 990, but I'll also be getting my new updated 12.3 drivers for my SVS. Friday, I will then be receiving my Outlaw 7700 along with my new Signal Cable, Balanced XLR cables. Christmas in August.

Excellent! So you'll have it all in time for the weekend.

Yes Sir, I can not wait.

Been thinking that it is probaly good that the pre/pro comes today and the amplifier comes Friday. Reason, that will give me time to do the software update on the 990 before getting everything hooked up. Is there anything special I need to know before doing the update other than "follow the directions"?

Well, the 990 came inn today, man this thing is a monster. Can't wait to get home and unpack it.

MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!
Enjoy your new toy...
I hope you get the amp shortly...
the wait can be painful...

I think having the 990 first will probably be helpful in lessening some of the overwhelming "I've got to hook up what?!" feelings that are a pretty natural reaction to getting any new surround sound processor hooked up. For the update, I think you've got all you need with the "follow your directions" mantra. If there are hiccups, the crowd here (and the update thread) should be able to keep you on track.

Okay, did the software update and everything went fine. Could not get it to reset itself at first and then I realized I forgot to toggle the OPR/SVC switch back to OPR. After that, system reset itself and now I'm ready for the amp to get here.

Prior to even using it, I upgraded my 990 today, no problem at all, using usb from my laptop.
Can't wait to use it, but must sort the 230V conversion on my 1770 first, basically there's two ways sorting the two toroids getting different voltages (since they're different in size), seems to be either adding a ballast transformer to make a virtual center tap (0-115-230V) or looping a wire through BOTH toroids to force equal voltages, the latter method necessitates removing all 7 amps incl. sockets (arrgghh!!) so I'm going for the ballast toroid, which I ordered locally today (suppose 160VA will be enough, since adding a 0.5A one from my stock already yielded a big improvement over the initial 75V >< 140 V values, i.e. 109 <> 120 V.
The longish board is already working fine (little transformer rewired for 230V) and the big toroids rewired for series primaries.

Well, all gear is finally inn. Once I get things up and running I will post first impressions. Did I ever mention how HEAVY the 7700 is?