If you were to compare the audio and build qulity of the 990 to any other pre/pro and the 7500/7700 to any other amp, (price aside) what would you compare them to?

In what ball park do the fall? Basicly, are you buying a yamaha, rotel, sunfire, krell, lexicon etc...?

I've never heard Krell or Lexicon, but I happen to believe that there's some real merit to the concept of TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch): you can't achieve all of the features and performance of a five-figure processor for barely over four figures. How much do you sacrifice for that huge cost savings? Yeah, that's hard to quantify...

Several folks have commented that the 990 was a clear step up from Yamaha (although I don't think any of us have tried the RXZ1). The one Rotel I've heard, I didn't like as much as my 950 (which in turn couldn't match my 990, particularly for two-channel) but there are other factors there (personal taste, different speakers, different rooms). Drunkonjack used a 990 and an Emotiva DMC-1 (clone of the Sunfire) and found only a slight difference sonically between the two.

In this review they use the Lexicon MC-12B as a reference to compare to. You can read his comments on the differences. At the end of the article you can read the Outlaw,s response.

http://ultimateavmag.com/surroundsoundpreampprocessors/705outlaw/

This review influenced me quite a bit toward getting the 990 since I had a Yamaha receiver. He directly compares the 990, 970 and RX-V2500.

http://processors.dblattman.com/

i wonder if any of the review mags would be interested in doing an artical doing a side by side comparison with a few different pre/pros at different price ranges to see if there is a difference. Outlaw claims to cut the middle man which = savings for us. (or do they mean profit for them?). Emotiva is the same thing.


When compared to yamaha, i thing that its normal that there is a difference as a yamaha system is less than half the price.

Gonk, I agree that there is no such thing as a free lunch. however there is also something else that you should take into consideration, and that is why buy outlaw. we want the best bank for our buck. some people give you 80% for our money and others give you 30%. If you are not an EE and particuly into this hobbie, you will never know. I'm into manufacturing and here is something for you to think about. The people who makes the raw materials make their cut, the agents who sell the raw materials make theirs, the manufacturer makes his cut, the agent that sells the finished good makes his cut, and the retail store makes his cut. please don't forget customes, and FREIGHT from each location to another.

Given that everything else is constant(reference), do you get high fidelity with the outlaw products? You do not get that with with Yamaha. I am taking about that feeling that you get when you are listening, as if you are in the center of a movie or as if you favorate band is playing infront of you, not speakers pushing sound. Your quality speakers should disapear. There are not alot of products out there that provide that. Do Outlaw products offer that? (990 & or 7500)

I started to write a reply, but it got far too long-winded. Starting over...

Short answer: my 990 (paired with a 750 and a pair of M200's) can in fact do exactly what you are talking about - remove itself (and the other components in the system) from the equation and let me experience the source material as it was intended. It's difficult to achieve and I still have no doubt that other systems could do it more effectively (albeit for significantly more money), but in my experience the 990's capable of it.

Long answer (which I believe you've already got a handle on, but may spark some interesting debate): there are many constants in design, manufacturing, and shipping, but smaller companies (both online and dealer-distributed) have far smaller margins of error than the huge corporations because their product life cycles are longer and their target market is more demanding. How many folks do you know with a cheap Panasonic or Sony receiver (or even an expensive one) in their living room who haven't even got it set up right and are satisfied with the sound? Now, how many folks do you think own a Rotel or Outlaw processor and haven't dialed it in at least reasonably well with an interest in getting full benefit from their investment? They have to get as close to that "magic" threshold as their price point will allow. The result is that these smaller companies often focus on performance over bells and whistles - that's one reason you often see new, popular features show up in receivers before they arrive in surround processors. A cool new gadget can be added to a large corporation's receiver and debugged over a couple years (and a couple generations of product), but a processor with a three or four year lifespan needs to get the features that it offers right. That means that companies like Outlaw and their brick & mortar counterparts apportion their design and manufacturing budgets differently - skip the weird DSP modes that mimic Notre Dame, skip auto-equalization that can't prove itself to improve most users' sound, skip new video switching options that may negatively effect final video quality, skip new radio formats that may not catch on, skip complex front panel doors with spring-loaded hinges, and focus on the core functions (analog section, essential processing modes, bass management, good DACs, good power supplies). And of course, there's also customer service to toss into the mix - give customers a place to communicate (which is a great way for customers to find and pick apart any bugs that slip through to production), be responsive to questions, and listen to customer desires and incorporate them into future versions or even firmware updates to current products.

Something interesting that I noticed while writing my initial (too long) post: there have been a number of subwoofer and speaker companies appear on the 'net over the last half dozen or so years. There's SVS, Hsu, Axiom, Aperion, Onix, and several others. Electronics, however, remains a much smaller segment - Outlaw, Emotiva, and OPPO Digital are probably the only three that have really carved out or started to carve out markets for themselves online.

Well, as far as looks go, I like the Outlaw's look, although I would've preferred non-blackish.
I like gear that's "different"!
I never liked the "Fort Knox" looks of most top-end home cinema receivers much, and I also never used auto-EQ, because even in my current Marantz SR-9600 it's wide off the mark...
Not a problem an SPL meter + my ears can't solve of course.
I never understood why people who can afford expensive receivers need video switching- surely they should prefer a scaler for that purpose?

Slightly o/t- I am currently working on a 7 ch class D final amp of 7 * 240W (8 Ohms) & 7 * 400W (4 ohms) respectively, based on Coldamp modules www.coldamp.com
Using 2 switch mode power supplies SPS8.
No heat, no excessive weight!
I am sure class D is the way to go, once they mastered the sound tweaking!

I'd put the Outlaw 990 in the league of Adcom, Arcam, or Anthem processors (hey, the 'A' crowd!) and Sherwood obviously.

Of course a $7000 Krell might be a bit beefier and some some better internals...but it should at that price.

I truly understand what you are talking about. And indeed, most people find me crazy for purchasing a 990 and 7500 when my current system with a yamaha 2500 sounds several times better than anything that they would purchase. Furthermore, most people do not know what to buy in the first place and having to connect a pair of rca jacks is a too complicated task. I stopped letting them know if i changed anything unless its a fisically obvious change.

here is one for you. I have heard that the outlaw amp is made by ATI. Well there are several posts on this site regarding this. Is it the same as the ATI2005 or ATI 2007? If they are, Why such a major price difference. We are talking about a 50% difference here. If you made amps for a living, would you badge one of your best amps for another reseller to sell it that much cheaper than yours? That means that Ati's greatest competion is ATI and at the same time ATI will loose marketshare.

As far as bells and whistles, I truly don't care for them unless that they make a difference in my quality like fully balanced inputs.

I think that there are many catigories and as long as you are in a certain catigory and keep it constant you should be fine.

What i mean is if you buy a $10,000 amp, you need $10,000 speakers to match not $500 ones and vice versa.

I haven't seen any definitive info on how the 7500 and 7700 differ from ATI's amps, but I get the impression that the differences aren't significant. Since ATI manufactures amps for a number of people, I think that selling amps under their own name is probably only a small portion of their business - they presumably get the price they want from Outlaw for the 7500 (7700, 7200, 7125, 7075) and call it good.

what are microfarads per channel, what difference do they do. What about output device per channel, like the 755 is 22,600 microfarads per channel and 10 output devices per channel. how many are the 7500 and what do they mean please.