There is nothing "jokey" about "Clever Little Clocks", spreading Cream Electret on your radiator or writing positive messages with a Red X pen to improve the sound off your stereo system. It's as serious as a punch in the face.


Those like you who "don't get it", make fun of it, and the people who do get it. I feel justified in making fun of the people who don't get it, because they make fun of me, or those who do get it. Fair's fair. The most tangible difference between the two camps, those who don't get and those who do, is the people who do get it, have better sounding audio systems because they do. The people who don't get it won't believe that, because they equate it with trying to shave time off your speed by shaving your legs before a race. Or any other notion that they believe is silly and fallacious, like "crystal healing". Or that they believe is silly and fallacious, simply because it "sounds silly" and they don't get that either. Such as "Orgone energy" for example.

Therefore, anything that sounds silly and fallacious, gets lumped in the same pile (usually called "snake oil") by people who don't "get it". ie. I've told people to put aspirin tablets on their speakers to improve their sound, and they've responded by telling me they prefer pineapple slices. Or in your case, avocado. Then when I reject their ideas, they think they're even more clever by arguing that if people are going to try something as silly as putting aspirin on their speakers, that a pineapple avocado parfait is just as valid. And they go on to argue that if I don't try their brilliant "tweak", then I'm a hypocrite. Admit it, that was also going to be your next move, wasn't it?

Problem is, it isn't just as valid because there's a reason, well beyond placebo's, for why the aspirin will work, and another reason why the avocado pineapple parfait won't. The other problem is, those who do get it (the phenomena) have created products that they are trying to sell to those who don't get it. (Because those few in the world who do get and have improved their sound & video a hundred times over by it, number in the hundreds. Hard to put bread on the table with those kinds of numbers, let alone make a decent profit off of their hard pioneering research).

One common denominator among those who don't get it, is that they don't get a lot of things. But as irony would have it, they're the ones who believe themselves to be somewhat experts on the subject of audio. They believe that they are not and will not allow themselves to be ignorant or gullible fools, by accepting the validity of audio products if they don't or can't understand how they work. They believe those who buy esoteric products from Belt or Machina Dynamica are the ones who are the ignorant, gullible fools, and they believe that those who sell the products must be thieves and charlatans.

Even though they may like to see themselves as "audio atheists", this belief system they've built up is no different than any other religion. What makes it like a religion, is that it is based entirely on theory. However, if the theory is wrong, then it follows that the belief is wrong. You people are taking it on "faith" that the Belt/CLC phenomena is entirely bogus, because it hasn't been "officially" proven by peer reviewed scientific journals. But yet by the same token, you can't explain how we exist today, since the origin of existence hasn't yet been scientifically proven either. Even the origin of the universe is still very much a controversial subject, within the science community.

You fail to realize that phenomenon observed in empirical studies that has not yet been proven by "official" scientific standards, doesn't invalidate the phenomenon. If it did, science would never progress!! In fact, science has often progressed very slowly, and sometimes not at all, because of those scientific standards that humans have imposed. The standards themselves and the political climate surrounding them are not perfect, because they are human constructions. Despite empirical studies that showed the use of Orgone energy healing cancerous cells, the Food & Drug Administration (that bastion of scientific knowledge) in the 50's declared without inquiry or allowing the researcher to defend his work, that Orgone energy doesn't exist, and showing further evidence of prejudice & bias, even went so far as to have his entire body of work destroyed, eliminating decades of research. (Reich's story would really make a GREAT dramatic and inspirational movie, if any filmakers are reading this!....). Well if that wasn't politically motivated scientific ruling, what is?

In the well cited case of Joseph Lister, a British surgeon in the 19th century who argued for sanitization in the preparation of surgical patients, citing the notion that there were invisible airborne "germs" that were invading open wounds and killing people, he received mockery and ridicule over these "invisible germs". He was asked "Show us the germs!". He couldn't prove it until much later of course, because all he had was empirical evidence. Meanwhile, people were being killed by these ignorant surgeons, because others wouldn't listen to him. Yet on his ward, where he utilized methods of sanitization, many more survived on average. The lesson here is, "ignorance can kill".

Fortunately, audio is a little less dangerous. But there is more danger in rejecting unproven scientific phenomenon that can be readily repeated in experiments, than in accepting unproven phenomenon that might be invalid. Because if you reject it, then you may have rejected true science, and closed your mind to new discoveries, simply because your mind wasn't open enough or educated enough to understand how it could work. If you accept it and it isn't valid, you'll know soon enough.

I repreat: IN HUNDREDS OF MESSAGES, NO ONE HERE HAS YET TO TRY A SINGLE CLC CLOCK OR BELT PRODUCT OR TECHNIQUE! Even though I made it -real easy- for people to do, by citing that the products have a return guarantee, or posting a website link where you could download a technique (l-shape) and try to repeat the phenomenon in your own home. Yet all have attacked me, mocked me, ridiculed me, condemned me, and heaped scorn, contempt and derision at me, for defending these products and ideas.

There's nothing scientific or even "right" about this kind of behaviour. There certainly is nothing right about calling people and manufacturer's "frauds" and "scammers" because you don't get how these products can work. That's not only very irresponsible, but its illegal in most audio discussion forums, because its illegal in most countries (it's called "libel", which leaves you open to a lawsuit). Yet most here have repeated such libel against both members and audio manufacturer's, without remorse or thought. And this fact will stand as a marker for future Google researchers, as will my posts. (That's why I don't write them for anyone here, including myself). I think that given due time, I'm going to look like Joseph Lister (albeit a somewhat potty-mouthed version of Joseph Lister), and the rest here are going to look like... well, the term "asinine fools" comes to mind.

Back to the irony: I've always preferred introducing these advanced audio concepts to non-audiophiles. I find that they are not such rigid thinkers, because they haven't been brainwashed by audio magazines or engineering courses. They might have no idea how a cd player works, let alone silver rainbow foils. They don't argue with me until they're blue in the face that the products can't work, before they've even tried them. They don't get off on arguing theory, as so many net audio hobbyists do, and without a basis of knowledge of even conventional audio, they can't anyway. Yet despite not being trained audiophiles, they often do hear the effects of the foils or other products, even under blind conditions (not that I am advocating blind testing at all). So once positively recognizing the Belt phenomenon, in an instant, they become more advanced about audio than most people in the audio industry, let alone everyone on this forum. Like other Beltists, they "get it" (even if they don't understand it).

When you're trying to discern relatively subtle differences between compressed mp3 files (where one has been Belted), which you have put through digital processors, burned to CDs, and listened to on speakers at low volume because you're afraid of waking your wife & daughter, then yes, you may not "get it". I don't even guarantee that you'll "get it", if you download and apply 2 dozen of my L-shapes. What I do guarantee, because I know this to be true, is that when you do enough Belt treatments to your home environment (or CLC's, whatever your AA poison), and find that your system has completely transformed in sound quality, elevated way beyond the level of merely changing a single component, clear "night and day differences", then you have no choice but to "get it". That's where I was, years ago. All Beltists are familiar with the ignorance of the masses re: alternative audio products, because most (which doesn't include me), were one of them at some point. So right now, they're just waiting for everyone else to play "catch up". They realize that could take decades, particularly if they have to wait for researchers in other areas of science come across and recognize the phenomenon that Belt the audio engineer did 25 years ago.

Anyway, all this to say, apology accepted. And very big of you, I might add. Joseph has a can of pineapple slices waiting at the exit door as a parting gift....

You don't know the half of it. Our friend delius is a busy little boy, and here\'s some examples and here are some more. Read posts by anyone with an email as their user name (especially the one from his terrific webpage!), and you can easily catch the delius MO.

Not knowing just how these forums were before he trolled on in, I can't say how much of the fact that they're lacking in decent discussion is his fault. However, where the forum reaches its nadir, he's right in the middle of it. Just as here, the vast majority of his posts are thousand-word personal attacks and incessant circular arguements, and the atmosphere borders on the ridculous - certainly delius' native element.

Much as I thought this thread a fun distraction, seeing what might well be it's inevitable conclusion makes me think that it's time has passed in these parts.

Ayoye !
Thank you Sluggo...great links !
the names are different but there is no mistake...
that charming condescending touch...we've learned to appreciate...is all there
Looks to me like this kind of love has been around...somebody's been busy making friends all over the place...
the people at Coral Sea Studios sure think so...see the link at the bottom of their web page...

Good sound...maybe...
bad hat...definitely

I haven't checked this thread in a while but holy bat-cr@p ? ! This dude delius has waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy too much time on his hands. But I guess when you live under a bridge there's not much else to do :rolleyes: .

This idiot is still posting??

Look, buster, since you're so allergic to anyone else's requests for some theory, some repeatable tests, anything other than your own vitriol, how about you just answer this:

Can you hear the difference with all your "Belt" trickery? Yes or no?

Specifically, do you think you'd be able to tell if someone replaced your BeltFoil and your BeltCream with ordinary Reynolds wrap and generic mustard?

Think you can do it without looking?

I'm not asking for ABX tests, spectral decay plots, or MP3's, burned to CD or otherwise. You get to listen and decide. Under controlled conditions, of course.

How about it, tough guy?

I think this was a new record. Posts 1 & 2? Well done.

GUYS! I thought I told you to waken me if this thread was reanimated. Slackers.


Well, I always sort of figured it was ultimately just that, variations in air pressure. Silly me.

Why is it that those with the least to say take the most time to say it? Odd.

The best way to find out if these clocks do anything or not is for Scott to contact these companies and do these tweaks to the clocks and then pass them around to the forum members here. This will stop this madness and you will enjoy your audio/video systems alot more then!............

Yeah, I think we can see that, genius. But you know what they say, you can't keep a good Sluggo down. Defeated by every one of my arguments, he's still mustering up the courage to respond to them once again. Question is, why are you still posting? All your previous posts were ignored, and unlike Sluggo, you never even showed you had the balls, let alone the knowledge to begin debating AA products with me.

Look imbecile, I've already written about the theory and repeatable tests. You seem to be allergic to "reading", in general. As far as "vitriol" goes, that's all you've ever posted in this thread?! Look up the word "hypocrite", once you learn how to read.

Don't ask me stupid questions, essay. I wouldn't be here saying what I did if I couldn't. And don't call it "trickery", asswipe. "Trickery" is you pretending to have anything other than sh*t-for-brains. Or a set of cahonies for that matter. Go graze with the other sheep, your leader is calling you.

Specifically, I have replaced some Belt techniques with "sugar pills". The sugar pills don't sound anything like the Belt stuff. But who said that Reynolds wrap and generic mustard don't have an effect on the sound? You? I think we already established you know dick all about audio from post #1.

I already have, troll. But you, I doubt you could tie your shoelaces without looking.

There's no such thing as "controlled conditions", idiot. You can not control conditions you don't know about. I've already put the info out there. You get to listen and decide -for yourself-. If you want to do tests with your head up your ass, and then conclude that you can't hear anything, that's your prerogative as well.

How about you try the products for yourself, dumb guy. Then maybe you'll earn the right to speak out against them, and have a bit more credibility here. Until then, you're just a fraud and a troll.

They figured there were enough fools to do the job of hurling mockery & ridicule already. Far as I'm concerned, you're always welcome to join the party. Just one more rear end to kick, for me.

Yes, I know. Stupidity and ignorance in all its humble glory.

Oh. You're one of "them". Sorry, I was mistaken, I thought you just came to witness the wholesale slaughtering of the fools. In that case, let me correct you, Mr. Sheep: You mean to say "stupid you", not "silly you". Let's start with that lump of haggis in your head that you're mistaking for a "brain". If it were a fully functional normal brain, you'd already have known and understood that there are far more variations with it than there are with air pressure, when listening to reproduced music. Since you like to pretend to know so much about music reproduction, let's see you explain what all the processes are that occur in the brain, as a result of hearing music? Remember, I said "all" the processes...

Even odder, why is it those most ignorant pretending to be the greatest experts?

Enlighten us, oh Slug-like one. Why is he "infamous"? I don't think anyone apart from the PWB discussion group and his personal circle of friends knows him.

And what exactly were you so "enlightened" by, troll? The fact that you were wrong when you kept implying to me that there was no internet discussion group that accepted open and respectful discussions of alternative audio like Belt products? Witless fool that you are, even with your size 11 still in your mouth, I'll accept your apology on that. And extend it by accepting your admission that you were wrong about everything else you said here to me as well.


Didn't I tell you already to stop lying? Nothing is "light reading" for you! Oh, and I'm glad you discovered anew word for you, "enlighten". Too bad you'll never experience it. Keep writing to Santa, maybe he can help.


So how are things in "Reverso World" Sluggo? Is up still down? Are lies still truth? Here's how things are in the real world: The forum you're referring to was a place where derision and ridicule ruled. It's what gets "little people" off. Naturally, that skyrocketed once I got there. But that's not my fault, I'm not responsible if you or others wish to behave like assholes. Just stop expecting me to behave differently if that's the way you wanna play it. On discussion forums, Beltists always make the best targets for bigoted assholes like yourself, who heap mockery, scorn and ridicule upon them, simply because they don't understand them or the products they use. After my time there, a professional audio journalist I'd been corresponding with emailed me to say that it was refreshing to see how I had actually gotten that forum to have serious audio discussions "for a change". Before me, it hadn't happened in -years-. Even members of the forum who vehemently disagreed on everything I said, agreed on that much. After I left, it went back to the usual dearth of serious audio discussion.

Now as for Outlaw.... I haven't checked the other threads before gracing the place with my presence, but I know for a fact before posting here there were several hundred messages in this thread alone, all of which consisted of members of this forum attacking a single member because of a product he used and supported. There was NO attempts made by you or anyone at any serious discussion of these products, from all I could see.

In fact, the only half-assed attempts made at serious discussion in this thread occurred when I came along. I know because you're one of those that made a half-assed feeble-minded attempt to seriously discuss alternative audio products & techniques. The problem is, I gave you a serious response and you ran the f**k away and hid under your bed like a frightened child. And then pretended I never responded. Same with every other person who attempted to debate or discuss the issues, that I gave serious and detailed responses to. Including my last serious response to garcianc2003, who unlike you and the rest of your band of ignorant trolls, had the good sense and "class" to apologize for attacking me with the usual sarcasm and ridicule.

Now if you want to have a serious audio discussion, troll, as you "pretend" that you do, then you can start by attempting to refute what I wrote to you in our little pseudo-debate. Heck its' been several hundred messages we've seen you mentally masturbating all over this thread every time a product is mentioned that you don't get, and I've still yet to see a shred of evidence from you, or anyone, that these products don't work or that the science behind them is false. Hell, you don't even know anything about the science behind them, so you don't even have a pot to piss in as far as attempting to refute them is concerned! Maybe that's why all you're capable of is ad hominem attacks?

What you first need to do, Greg Sluggo, is apologize humbly and sincerely for accusing Outlaw members and audio manufacturers of "fraud", "shilling" and "Scamming", when you have failed to show ANY evidence to support your libelous claims .