Hi there,

First, let me say "thanks" to the Outlaws for implementing two things in the new firmware that I find useful: 1) displaying the current mode (stereo, DD, etc.) when pressing the "stereo", "DTS" and "Dolby" buttons, and 2) allowing sub trim through the "Test" - "OK" - "OK" path. I really like these two changes.

That said, it looks like I'm having some trouble with the sub trim through the "Test" - "OK" - "OK" path. When listening to "stereo", "bypass" or "upsample" modes, the sub trim seems to do nothing -- until I get to -12 dB, at which point I get a huge increase in sub amplitude. I noted that the sub is playing at a relatively "normal" volume in these modes.

In "5-channel stereo" mode, this sub trim method appears to work OK. That is, it gets louder with +dB and quieter with -dB. I did not make a more detailed analysis than that.

Anyone seeing the same problem, or is it just me?

-- Otto

hmm...I wonder if this is what happened to me using Stereo Bypass. I got a huge jump in sub output went I went from large to small and if I not mistaken my sub trim was around -13 or -14.

Otto - Definitely a bug! I just re-verified the above. The Sub trim works fine until you go from -12 to -13db then hold on to your butt. I have tons of headroom with my SVS PB12+2 and sealed room, so I needed to dial the levels down by quite a bit, imagine the shock when I went from -12 to -13. I am hearing what sounds like a bit of distortion I hope I didn’t fry a driver. Outlaw needs to get the word out quick on this before people start blowing drivers.

Did some further checking at Scott's prodding and found that the sub trim bug kicks in only when you have a two channel sub offset entered.

Obie_fl, does that mean one can no longer use the 2-channel sub offset trim? Once set up right for 5.1, I usually have mine set for -2 or -3 dB or I get too much bass.

To clarify, the combination of subwoofer trim (in Channel Calibration menu) and two channel subwoofer offset (in Surround Configuration menu) should not exceed 15dB of attenuation. Once those two levels request more than 15dB of attenuation, the sub calibration tone jumps in volume.

Quite frankly, if you need to trim your sub level down by more than 15dB you should alternatively reduce the gain on your subwoofer amplifier.

Best,

Scott

Yeah, I'm using a 2-ch sub offset of -4 dB. Sounds like you can use the 2-ch sub offset as normal, but it renders useless the "Test"-"OK"-"OK" to trim the sub on the fly (i.e., without resorting to the OSD). Actually, now that I think of it, what would happen to the sub level if you *did* go into the OSD? I'm not at home right now, but I'll give that a look tonight. If the using a 2-ch sub offset means you go no effect (well, until -12 dB, anyway) from adjusting the sub level (either in the OSD or not), then that seems pretty broke to me.

So, now that we *just* got the firmware upgrade, does anyone know of Outlaw's plans to fix this kind of stuff (i.e,. the *new* bugs)? I'd really like to have these features work together!

-- Otto

Scott,

I think we were typing at the same time...

I'm set up fairly straightforward: all speakers to large, sub crosses over at 60. I think my sub level is at 0 or -1 dB in the config menu. 2-ch sub offset is at -4 dB.

When I try to trim sub level with the remote, I get no effect until -12 dB, at which point the sub makes a huge jump in volume -- it's unlistenable.

Prior to that, I can go from +15 dB to -11 dB with no discernible (using a quick by-ear and touch-the-driver test). Certainly not the change that I would expect with a 24 dB swing.

I'll continue to check it out tonight (time willing).

-- Otto

They need to continue to release firmware updates to fix bugs if they want returning customers.

The sub offset did not work prior to this update. It does now, provided you do not create a situation where the sub trim is being reduced by more than 15dB through a combination of sub level trim in your surround configuration adjustments and the 2-channel sub offset.

The actual tone level when you create an attenuation of -16dB is NOT accurate, keep it above -16dB (-15db on up) and it is.

Otto, give us a call at 866-OUTLAWS and will get you straightened out.