I don't understand why that is. I suppose the assumption they are making is that people who want to use the multi channel audio on the HDMI cable would switch it through some sort of processor on the way to the display and extract it there. But it seems like a pretty poor approach to me, given that there are already two HDMI standards in the marketplace and a third on the way. How hard would it be to send the digital audio out on that output? Or supply a second one for that purpose? Or do all the devices that have HDMI outputs also have digital out for audio (so much for the "one cable" approach)and I'm getting tweaked over a non-issue?

Edit:
Fixed spelling errors.

My Directv RX has HDMI output, and an Optical digital output. I have the Optical out connected to a 990. In the DTV RX Menue you can select either PCM or Dolby Digital format. If PCM is selected I get Audio from my tv speakers and 990 defaults to DD PLIIx and is the only mode selectable. If DD is selected I get no Audio from TV and and all DD modes are available on the 990. I guess this makes sense as I understand that the HDMI audio is PCM. I still do not understand why anyone would want multichannel audio sent to a TV! I like the HDMI video connection very much and the digital connection does improved the PQ IMHO, However this audio situation is a wait and see for for me.

You may not want multichannel sent to your TV but a lot of people want stereo sent to their TV speakers. Since you can't select anything but PLIIX I'm assuming when you select PCM the RX is putting out Stereo. It's the one cable solution to the display for J6P.

Yes the Sat RX is putting out stereo. Hell, I can get a one cable solution to my display with Rabbit Ears and coax to the RF input.

I guess we have finally come full circle.

Hello. I am a brand new Outlaw buyer. My 990, 7700 and LFM-1 are being delivered today.

I contacted Pioneer regarding their blu-ray player that is coming out. I would encourage others to contact them as well regarding the lack of 7.1 analog outputs.

Here is the reply that I received from them:

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.

You are correct this model being the first only offers 5.1 analog outputs. Most people connecting 7.1 would use a digital connection instead of an analog.
I will forward your e-mail to our Marketing group for their review.

Sorry to quote an old post, gonk really has a handle on this but I believe the above is incorrect, and now that the machines are on the street we have more info. I don't believe there are legacy DTS or DD tracks on the disk but rather they are derived from the DD+ and DTS-HD tracks.

AFAIK the A1 has three options for audio output, from best to worse, HDMI PCM, analog 5.1, and S/PDIF (coax, Toslink). Here comes the fun part that took everyone by surprise, the S/PDIF output is the DD+ track decoded to PCM and then re-encoded in the machine to DTS. This really threw a lot of people for a loop, I believe it may be possible to send a DD+ derived DD signal over HDMI for decoding but if you have HDMI1.1 or higher you would probably be better off with the Hi-res PCM over HDMI.

It is questionable whether HDMI1.3 is really necessary anytime soon since all of these players decode internally. In fact if the decoding is moved to the Pre/Pro or receivers you will lose some of the player’s interactivity. I see a lot of b**thing and moaning about HDCP and the format wars some are legitimate concerns I agree. What gets lost in all of this is that both these new formats and HDMI are a pretty decent move up on the technological ladder, which as a hobbyist and enthusiast I find exciting.

rduke - Not to throw cold water on the 7.1 analog outputs but I think we may never see any players with it. My feeling is by the time we see 7.1 software the world will have moved to the HDMI interface.

I don't believe that the 990 can applying processing to the analog 7.1 inputs, although I'm not at home to check. If you could applying say DPIIx processing or DTS NEO you could get sound to the rears that way. Maybe a possible upgrade to the 990?

Thanks for passing along the e-mail, rduke. I can't claim to buy into Pioneer's reasoning, but perhaps second gen players will make the move up to 7.1 for analog outputs.

Obie_fl, you've got an excellent point - there was talk at one time about how the new formats would provide legacy support and I think I got it stuck in my head that they would do so by embedding a legacy track, but from a design standpoint that seems like a pretty foolish approach. Even with the new formats, the bit budget had to be considered, and tossing in duplicate data in a lesser format is pretty silly. It makes much more sense to require the players to generate a derived DD or DTS track from the DD+/DTS-HD source.

I've heard about the DD+-to-DTS trick on the Toshiba A1 (and presumably the XA1), and it certainly startled me the first time I saw it. Why use DTS? The only reasons that occur to me are either Toshiba is making use of the higher bit rates allowed by DTS or perhaps a real-time DTS encoder was easier to implement for some reason. I haven't gone hunting around AVS to see if anyone has identified the real reason.

We'll probably see HDMI 1.3 at some point in the next year or so, but I've seen several people point out that the "upgrade" to 1.3 will actually prevent the full degree of interactivity offered by both formats - the downloadable content that is supported apparently only works if the player handles the audio decoding. From that standpoint, leaving the trio of new decoders (DD+, DTS-HD, and TrueHD) in the player actually becomes preferable.

On the one hand, receivers and processors have been shipping with 7.1 analog inputs for a couple years now just for this sort of situation, so I'd hope that at least some manufacturers (at least folks like Denon, perhaps) will recognize that. On the other hand, the sheer number of dubious decisions already associated with these two formats does lend weight to your theory.
You are correct. As it stands now, the 7.1 direct input is independent from all surround processing. I'm not sure that this can be changed with a firmware update - it's very possible the hardware was designed in such a way that it is ruled out.