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#58635 - 03/17/06 09:40 PM Interconnects
scalla Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/17/06
Posts: 17
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Ordered a 990/7700 combo today (woot). When I asked about interconnects (I was going to order "0.5m Analog PCA Interconnects (7 singles)") the salesperson indicated that they would not be long enough and that I should be buying XLR conectors. I know I read on the forums here that balanced inputs should only be used in cases where there are long runs. I plan on having the processor on the shelf right above the amp (well within 16 inches I would think). This is my first venture into separates so I thought I better check. What should I be buying for cables? I also need to hook up a Denon 2910. Thanks in advance.
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Outlaw 990/7700/LFM1-Plus
Paradigm 100's/CC470/Mini Monitors
Denon 2910 DVD/CD

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#58636 - 03/17/06 10:09 PM Re: Interconnects
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
XLR have the benefit of a locking connector, but so do the PCA's. I suspect they recommended XLR's because it took them a while to get amps in the product line that offered XLR inputs and they're probably just happy to be able to offer the option, but if you want PCA's I would not feel bad at all about telling you to get them. Whoever you spoke to was quite right about the 0.5-meter cables being too short - I use them from my DVD-Audio player to my 990, but to do so I have to put the player directly above the 990 and I have basically no slack. The 0.5-meter were mainly developed for use with the ICBM (where you had the ICBM stacked right above or below the player and you didn't want excess cable to deal with). Between the 990 and the 7700, I'd probably go with the seven 1.2-meter cables - you'll want to have some space above the amp for cooling and you've got some lateral travel to account for (from one side of the 990's rear panel to the other side of the amp's rear panel in some cases), but the 1.2-meter will give you plenty of reach. If you can locate the 2910 directly above the 990, six of the 0.5-meter cables should work (both the 2910's output and the 990's input are on the same side). If the 2910 has to be much higher than that or if your rear panel access is convoluted, the 1.2-meter would be a better choice.
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#58637 - 03/17/06 10:22 PM Re: Interconnects
scalla Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/17/06
Posts: 17
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by gonk:
XLR have the benefit of a locking connector, but so do the PCA's. I suspect they recommended XLR's because it took them a while to get amps in the product line that offered XLR inputs and they're probably just happy to be able to offer the option, but if you want PCA's I would not feel bad at all about telling you to get them. Whoever you spoke to was quite right about the 0.5-meter cables being too short - I use them from my DVD-Audio player to my 990, but to do so I have to put the player directly above the 990 and I have basically no slack. The 0.5-meter were mainly developed for use with the ICBM (where you had the ICBM stacked right above or below the player and you didn't want excess cable to deal with). Between the 990 and the 7700, I'd probably go with the seven 1.2-meter cables - you'll want to have some space above the amp for cooling and you've got some lateral travel to account for (from one side of the 990's rear panel to the other side of the amp's rear panel in some cases), but the 1.2-meter will give you plenty of reach. If you can locate the 2910 directly above the 990, six of the 0.5-meter cables should work (both the 2910's output and the 990's input are on the same side). If the 2910 has to be much higher than that or if your rear panel access is convoluted, the 1.2-meter would be a better choice.
I'm not really partial to either. I just want what sounds best and some other threads made it sound like there was a sonic penalty for using the XLR's.
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Outlaw 990/7700/LFM1-Plus
Paradigm 100's/CC470/Mini Monitors
Denon 2910 DVD/CD

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#58638 - 03/17/06 10:35 PM Re: Interconnects
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
There's a great deal of debate as to whether or not short XLR's provide any benefit or have any detrimental effect, with no universally-accepted answer that I've seen. Having not been able to compare the two personally, I don't have a real definitive answer on the matter, although I tend to side with the camp that says XLR's aren't necessary for such short runs.
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#58639 - 03/18/06 12:26 AM Re: Interconnects
Shawn Parr Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 44
Personally for this stuff I would stick with unbalanced. That being said, it really depends on the gear you have whether balanced or unbalanced will sound better. The reason I would go unbalanced is a purist thing, balanced circuits require either a differential amplifier or transformer to implement. Both of those items can have very distinct character, either good or bad.

I prefer to try to keep as few components in the system as possible when I can. Thus since unbalanced has fewer components (the diff amps and/or transformers) it seems to be a purer connection. That being said you might find the character from those items is something you prefer. You might also find that you can't tell the difference as some diff amps and transformers are extremely well designed and are pretty darn transparent.

If you are really concerned buy both types, try them both, and if you prefer one over the other keep that and send the other back. If you don't hear a difference, send back the more expensive set. smile

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#58640 - 03/18/06 01:03 AM Re: Interconnects
AvFan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 619
Loc: El Cajon, California
I don't believe Outlaw allows returns on cables, but you certainly can ask.

I use Outlaw's 1.2m balanced cables between my 990 and ATI 2005. And even though the run is short (actually I would prefer a 1 meter cable) I like the way the XLR connector locks. Very solid feel and a nice "click" when the connection is made.

One additional caution; if you use the balanced Outlaw cables they are pretty stiff. If you need to make sharp bends they may not be your best choice. Also the XLR connectors themselves take up more room from the back of the 990 and amp than an RCA/unbalanced connector. This could be a concern if you have a cabinet versus a rack for your equipment.
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Outlaw 976 | ATI 2005 | M&K 850s Left, Center & Right, Surround-55s, MX-70B Sub | Harmony 950 remote | Panamax 5100 | OPPO UDP-203 | LG OLED55B7

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#58641 - 03/18/06 09:08 AM Re: Interconnects
scalla Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/17/06
Posts: 17
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by AvFan:
I don't believe Outlaw allows returns on cables, but you certainly can ask.

Your correct. Thats why I held off.

Most days I would just buy both and see which I prefer but yesterday I bought a pair of Pardigm Studio 100's, a Denon DVD 2910 and the 990/7700 combo. That wiped out my audio budget for this week wink . Now I just need $2500 to buy the rest of the speakers.
_________________________
Outlaw 990/7700/LFM1-Plus
Paradigm 100's/CC470/Mini Monitors
Denon 2910 DVD/CD

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#58642 - 03/18/06 10:29 AM Re: Interconnects
AvFan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 619
Loc: El Cajon, California
I certainly can't speak in any real detail to the technical merits of balanced versus unbalanced cables and I have not taken the time to connect my 990 to my amp via unbalanced connectors to see if there is a difference. However, the discussion on this topic (there are several in the forum if you want to search for them) seemed to conclude that balanced cables were not necessary for short runs where the opportunity for interference was low. Also, it did not hurt to have balanced cables. I like the solid feel of the connectors themselves and so spent slightly more money for the balanced cables.
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AvFan
Outlaw 976 | ATI 2005 | M&K 850s Left, Center & Right, Surround-55s, MX-70B Sub | Harmony 950 remote | Panamax 5100 | OPPO UDP-203 | LG OLED55B7

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#58643 - 03/18/06 10:46 AM Re: Interconnects
Shawn Parr Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 44
Apologies, I didn't realize cable returns where not available for Outlaw brand cables.

If locking connectors are a concern, there are some other brands that offer RCA locking connectors which others seem to like. I have not yet played with them myself, but they seem ingeniously simple.

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#58644 - 03/18/06 11:08 AM Re: Interconnects
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Yeah, Shawn, Outlaw's own RCA cables (the PCA) include a locking connector. It takes a bit more space (the outer barrel is a bit larger than a normal RCA connector), but they do give you a very solid connection.
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