Ordered a 990/7700 combo today (woot). When I asked about interconnects (I was going to order "0.5m Analog PCA Interconnects (7 singles)") the salesperson indicated that they would not be long enough and that I should be buying XLR conectors. I know I read on the forums here that balanced inputs should only be used in cases where there are long runs. I plan on having the processor on the shelf right above the amp (well within 16 inches I would think). This is my first venture into separates so I thought I better check. What should I be buying for cables? I also need to hook up a Denon 2910. Thanks in advance.

XLR have the benefit of a locking connector, but so do the PCA's. I suspect they recommended XLR's because it took them a while to get amps in the product line that offered XLR inputs and they're probably just happy to be able to offer the option, but if you want PCA's I would not feel bad at all about telling you to get them. Whoever you spoke to was quite right about the 0.5-meter cables being too short - I use them from my DVD-Audio player to my 990, but to do so I have to put the player directly above the 990 and I have basically no slack. The 0.5-meter were mainly developed for use with the ICBM (where you had the ICBM stacked right above or below the player and you didn't want excess cable to deal with). Between the 990 and the 7700, I'd probably go with the seven 1.2-meter cables - you'll want to have some space above the amp for cooling and you've got some lateral travel to account for (from one side of the 990's rear panel to the other side of the amp's rear panel in some cases), but the 1.2-meter will give you plenty of reach. If you can locate the 2910 directly above the 990, six of the 0.5-meter cables should work (both the 2910's output and the 990's input are on the same side). If the 2910 has to be much higher than that or if your rear panel access is convoluted, the 1.2-meter would be a better choice.

I'm not really partial to either. I just want what sounds best and some other threads made it sound like there was a sonic penalty for using the XLR's.

There's a great deal of debate as to whether or not short XLR's provide any benefit or have any detrimental effect, with no universally-accepted answer that I've seen. Having not been able to compare the two personally, I don't have a real definitive answer on the matter, although I tend to side with the camp that says XLR's aren't necessary for such short runs.

Personally for this stuff I would stick with unbalanced. That being said, it really depends on the gear you have whether balanced or unbalanced will sound better. The reason I would go unbalanced is a purist thing, balanced circuits require either a differential amplifier or transformer to implement. Both of those items can have very distinct character, either good or bad.

I prefer to try to keep as few components in the system as possible when I can. Thus since unbalanced has fewer components (the diff amps and/or transformers) it seems to be a purer connection. That being said you might find the character from those items is something you prefer. You might also find that you can't tell the difference as some diff amps and transformers are extremely well designed and are pretty darn transparent.

If you are really concerned buy both types, try them both, and if you prefer one over the other keep that and send the other back. If you don't hear a difference, send back the more expensive set.

I don't believe Outlaw allows returns on cables, but you certainly can ask.

I use Outlaw's 1.2m balanced cables between my 990 and ATI 2005. And even though the run is short (actually I would prefer a 1 meter cable) I like the way the XLR connector locks. Very solid feel and a nice "click" when the connection is made.

One additional caution; if you use the balanced Outlaw cables they are pretty stiff. If you need to make sharp bends they may not be your best choice. Also the XLR connectors themselves take up more room from the back of the 990 and amp than an RCA/unbalanced connector. This could be a concern if you have a cabinet versus a rack for your equipment.

Your correct. Thats why I held off.

Most days I would just buy both and see which I prefer but yesterday I bought a pair of Pardigm Studio 100's, a Denon DVD 2910 and the 990/7700 combo. That wiped out my audio budget for this week . Now I just need $2500 to buy the rest of the speakers.

I certainly can't speak in any real detail to the technical merits of balanced versus unbalanced cables and I have not taken the time to connect my 990 to my amp via unbalanced connectors to see if there is a difference. However, the discussion on this topic (there are several in the forum if you want to search for them) seemed to conclude that balanced cables were not necessary for short runs where the opportunity for interference was low. Also, it did not hurt to have balanced cables. I like the solid feel of the connectors themselves and so spent slightly more money for the balanced cables.

Apologies, I didn't realize cable returns where not available for Outlaw brand cables.

If locking connectors are a concern, there are some other brands that offer RCA locking connectors which others seem to like. I have not yet played with them myself, but they seem ingeniously simple.

Yeah, Shawn, Outlaw's own RCA cables (the PCA) include a locking connector. It takes a bit more space (the outer barrel is a bit larger than a normal RCA connector), but they do give you a very solid connection.

I have the Outlaw PCA cables installed from my 990 to 7125. No doubt the connection is secure however the outer barrel Gonk refers to does make it very tight between connection points. I wish there was little more room here. Minor complaint.

Cables:

I suggest going to www.partsexpress.com and looking up Dayton Audio cables. I ordered an entire replacement set of interconnects (S-Video, 7.1 including sub connections, DVDA connections, etc.) for $150 shipped. The build quality is quite excellent, and they have been received positively by numerous users (just look at www.avsforum.com).

Also, www.partsexpress.com has a 45 day return policy... and offers both balanced and unbalanced, etc.

I went the Dayton Audio route and haven't looked back. Nice build quality, come in 3ft lengths, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

--TDA

With todays design technologies applied to interconnects. I feel the choice to use balanced and unbalanced would be a personal and an application choice. In pro gear I could easily see the need. Long runs and the power used. That having a connetion come loose would be a liability issue. But for home use. If one starts with a quality designed cable the concern is mute. Also as more processing that is offered in todays Rec/Pre-pros. I could only imagine how large the chasis would be and the cost passed onto the consumer. I've looked at alot of displayers at the CES show. And very few use Balanced connection. Just my opinion.

I have used MIT cables for over 10 years.
They are top quality and go from moderate prices to thousands of $$$.
I have used their T2 (now know as AVT) line, and also the
MI-330 (now known as Shotgun.
If you need XLR, look at the AVT Proline.
http://www.mitcables.com

Another good place to check is http://www.BlueJeansCables.com

I really like the Canare RCA connectors that they use for their RCA audio and video cables. Industrial strength stuff that makes a very solid connection to the terminal but isn't ridiculous to pull off like some of the MIT or Monster stuff can be.

I've had good results with their S-Video, speaker and digital coax cables.

Their prices are very reasonable, they offer 30 day trial and all cables are handcut and terminated to your specific length requirements.

They also offer balanced interconnects if you want to go that route. If you are at all worried about ground-loop hum or other noise introduced from crosstalk between interconnects, powercables and other sources, and you have balanced connectors on your amps and preamp, then go ahead and use balanced interconnects...otherwise use unbalanced.

For further reference, I currently use an unbalanced interconnect bundle from Monstercable to go from the preamp to the amp and have ZERO problems with noise.

MIT cables. 8-)

Perhaps I could interest any purchasers of Oracle cables in a set of Clever Little Clocks. An extra $300 is statistical noise compared to the cost of these cables. I'll never quite understand MIT's stance of intentionally injecting distortion into the signal of their cables in the hope of using it as a crude tone control.

I'm glad they're working for you, but I find them to be very expensive and of questionable value since they are designed to "change the signal" they are carrying...ostensibly for the better.

Interconnect and speaker cabling, in spite of what the high end cable hucksters will tell you, is not rocket science. You can even make cabling yourself that rivals some of the best stuff out there for a fraction of the cost. But some of the value producers like Outlaw, Blue Jean Cable, Dayton, etc are perfectly adequate. If you saw the differences between a $5 Walmart cable, a mid-range cable from Outlaw/BlueJean/Dayton/etc, and something from one of the Bentley-esque brands on a scope, I suspect a lot more people would be shopping at Walmart. 8-)

Cheers,

"You can even make cabling yourself that rivals some of the best stuff out there for a fraction of the cost": As I stated somewhere else in this Saloon, I've made stereo interconnects with less than $20 worth of materials that were nearly indistinguishable from Cardas $700 stuff, at least in the testing conditions I listened under. All you need is an appropriate length of 4-conductor phone cord, a knife to cut off the outer insulation, a stripper of the simplest type (or just the knife again) to cut off the insulation on each individual conductor, 4 of the cheapest RS phono plugs, the cheapest pencil tip soldering iron, solder, and about a half hour's time. The only reason I don't use the home-made stuff for all the audio interconnects in my system except the XLRs from the 990 to the amplifiers is that I had a bunch of other interconnects already.
BTW, could one make a good video component cable from 6-conductor phone wire and 3 pairs of phone plugs in the same way? Vistas of economy are opening up here . . .

Having not yet decided to trigger on more expensive cables, and, having been blown away with sound improvement using at first 755 and then when I chagned deployment around the 7700, I have not done a "shootout".

That said I can only tell you that the cables I bought from www.totalsignal.com are excellent. That's not to say that outlaw or other high-end cables aren't better, but at least for now I'd rather save on cables and put the $$.cc into gear.

My .02

I wouldn't recommend using phone wire for video cable. Instead buy Cat 5 cable from Frys or wherever.

Phone cable is typically Cat 3, which is not twisted pair strands and Cat 5 is twisted pair. Should make a difference for video that is much higher bandwidth than audio, but will probably also make a difference with audio as well as the twisted pairs help to eliminate crosstalk and other types of interference.

I wouldn't recommend making your own video cables, however, unless you have access to Canare connectors and your own termination kit. Stuff from BlueJeansCable.com is really solid, works great and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

As you can tell, I'm pretty much totally sold on their stuff and their way of doing business. All cables are hand cut to specification and hand terminated with industrial quality connectors. Only cable types they don't offer are fiber optic.

Some of the other cable manufacturers offer decent cables as well, but the Canare RCA connectors are seriously like butta, seriously.

My $.02

Yep, I've been sold on canare cables/connectors since my studio days. I only bought the Outlaw cables on a lark to see what they looked like and then decided to use them rather than roll some more cables for myself and waste resources.

Cheers,

I make my own RCA interconnects. Check out http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/14/t/000152.html for a discussion on making custom length cables that won't break the bank but will likely meet most folks needs. I use Steren connectors with Belden RG59 cable without any complaints. The Canare connectors with either Belden or Canare cable would also be a fine choice.

I will throw in another vote for BlueJeans Cable; I had them make a set of XLR's for my 990/7700 and they are very nice; extreamly flexiable and fairly thin cable, you can also get them color coded. I had the 7125 Amp until the 7700 were available and I was using RCA's; did not notice a difference in sound either way between XLR / RCA but I do like the XLC connectors much better.

All of my cables were made to length by BlueJeans and I am VERY happy with the Belden Brilliance Cable and Canare connectors that they use.

Here's a short tutorial on making high quality interconnect for those that don't want to spring for expensive crimping tools. I prefer Canare mic cable and canare crimp-on RCA plugs, but any higher quality mic cable and quality RCA plug will do. This is a bit more flexible than the coax recipes that some people like to use and has good noise rejection characteristics.

http://www.wmeckle.com/CABLE/Cable.htm

Or you can just take the guess work out and buy cabling from Outlaw. I like the locking RCA connectors they use.

Cheers,

I love love love my 990 & 7125 but I hate the locking PCA cables I got. By the time about 4 of them were in place I couldn't squeeze my fingers in to tighten the remaining 3 and the 7th one forget about it, I had to find an old RCA cable to get the system up and running. I personally think the locking cables were a terrible idea. Sweet looking cables and they feel solidly built, I can probably use them someday for other analog inputs, but not good (really nonfunctional for me) for purposes connecting the amp and preamp. My fingers are not very wide either, in fact pretty thin, so its really a poor choice on Outlaw's part to sell these things imo.

I agree there should be a little more room between the RCA connection points. They certainly dedicated plenty of room between the XLR connections. As you said using the outlaw PCA cables which have a larger circumference than a standard RCA makes it even tighter. I noticed things were cramped when I first hooked up. However it wasn’t until I went to unhook the L/F main, to test a two channel amp, when I really noticed the problem. There was not enough room to really get my fingers in there so I could loosen the connection, I had to(delicately) use a pair of needle nose plyers to loosen. Not the best scenario.

I also agree with the above about the Outlaw PCA cables....in fact, since I now use XLR cables with my 7500, I've relegated the PCA's to another preamp that has more room available for them.

Now that you mention it, yes it was a bit of a pain in the hiney to connect the 990 and 755 with the locking connectors after more than a couple were connected. I ended up using a pair of bent nose needle nose pliers to finish up. The outputs on the 990 are VERY close together.

Cheers,

I'm surprised nobody's complaining about the 990's inputs - they are just as close together as the outputs and there are a lot more of them. Isn't anyone using Outlaw interconnects on the inputs?

Interesting historical tidbit: around the time the Model 950 started shipping (with inputs and outputs that are if anything slightly closer together than the 990's), Outlaw revised the design of the PCA's locking connectors to reduce the diameter due to feedback of this type. The current size are almost indistinguishable in diameter from other locking RCA's I've got in my system. Locking RCA's are inevitably a tight fit, whether from Outlaw or from somebody else.

EDIT: Woah, post number 6000...

I think the issue is with the spacing between the inputs and outputs on the 990, not the diameter of the Outlaw(or other manufactures) PCA interconnects. As you have pointed out Gonk, a good number of locking RCA's from other manufactures are virtually the same diameter as the outlaw cables. To clarify my post above I was referring to the RCA outputs from the 990 to the 7125 (running a full 7.1 system it is very cramped!). Really by design the spacing does not accommodate the locking connectors adequately. That said it’s a minor inconvenience in my opinion, the 990 is an outstanding Pre-pro.

I'm also using Outlaws PCA's on my Arcam and they are very tight as well. I think they're trying to pack allot of inputs on the back of these units and it makes things a little tight. I've also had my cables for awhile so maybe I got the bigger one's, dunno.

As much as I like these cables I've considered changing them just for this reason. Just don't know where I can find a cable with UP-OCC copper at anywhere near this price. BTW, I like that Outlaw does not try to hype IC's and designs around things that really matter and not allot of snake oil.

BTW, curious why they don't offer a speaker cable?